From BestofNewOrleans.com:
Q: (New Republic editor) Leon Wieseltier said about you and Ann Coulter recently, “They share the assumption that the most extreme formulation of an idea is its truest one.” Your retort?
MAHER: My retort would be, he sounds like he’s expressing one of the problems with the media, which is what I call “fake fairness.” Sometimes the truth is all on one side. One of the problems with our media is that they don’t really know what’s up, so they always have to posit the idea that everything is a 50/50 situation. You’ll see a cover story in Time or Newsweek on legalizing marijuana, and they’ll give the pros and the cons. Well, you know what, be honest with yourself. There really aren’t any cons. It’s one of the most benign drugs in the world. Pharmaceuticals and liquor kill hundreds of thousands of people a year; marijuana doesn’t kill anybody. This is, I think, the biggest cash crop in America. But of course it’s all going to drug dealers and illegals instead of the government. It’s really a no-brainer issue, but it’s not treated that way in the press. So I would say to this guy, to paraphrase Barry Goldwater, “Extremism in the defense of truth is no vice.”
Q: Are you still on the board of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML)?
MAHER: You know, that’s a good question. I haven’t had much contact with them in recent years. I was a little disillusioned. I’ve always said, one of the reasons there’s been so little progress on the marijuana front is that what the movement needs more than anything is some kick-ass, take-no-prisoners, Karl Rove-type lobbyist, you know? And that just never happens, because it’s all a bunch of stoners. You got to get up for that 8 a.m. breakfast meeting with the congressman on Capitol Hill!
Gee, Bill, thanks for the help. We’ve got NORML Chapter volunteers who drive an hour or two to get to their state capitals by 8am for those breakfast meetings with representatives, senators, and assemblypersons at the state level. We’ve got Keith Stroup working in close contact with Reps. Barney Franks’ and Ron Paul’s offices at the federal level. We’ve gotten the first marijuana legalization bills introduced in California and Massachusetts and thirteen medical marijuana states and thirteen decriminalization states all from “kick-ass, take-no-prisoners” lobbying. We’ve got activists who don’t get paid a dime to collect signatures, write letters, and march in protests to show Americans “there really aren’t any cons” to marijuana legalization.
You know, just “a bunch of stoners.”
Every year I hear from regular cannabis consumers — you know, Bill, the ones who actually get busted for pot and don’t have the celebrity connections and money to get out of it — who complain, “How come we can’t get Bill Maher (or Woody Harrelson or Willie Nelson or Tommy Chong…) to do a commercial for NORML, or appear at a rally, or speak at a conference?” (To your credit, you spoke at the 2002 NORML CON.)
Apparently you don’t want to associate with “a bunch of stoners.” (I know… maybe it’s because this “bunch of stoners” doesn’t throw lavish parties at the Playboy Mansion so you can find your next hook-up.)
So if you’re wondering why “it’s really a no-brainer issue, but it’s not treated that way in the press,” let me explain. If the highest-profile political talk show host supporting marijuana law reform thinks reformers on his side of the issue are “a bunch of stoners”, why should they take the issue seriously?
Sorry, man, I love your comedy and your politics, but I have to admit, I’m feeling “a little disillusioned” with you right now.
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Todd, I am four years your senior. You can lay off the ad hominem “dear boys” and “dear lads”. I have tried to maintain respect and decorum toward you during this entire conversation, but you’re making it increasingly difficult.
Here’s WTF, in simple language:
Bill Maher calls NORML “a bunch of stoners”.
I object, because I represent thousands of volunteer grassroots activists working hard to make Bill’s weed legal, and they are not “a bunch of stoners”
You defend Bill by claiming that NORML’s leadership and current state of affairs deserve criticism.
I respond that that is a separate topic in no way redeeming the original “bunch of stoners” line.
You continue to trash NORML and in the process throw ad hominem insults toward me and my friends and co-workers.
I defend NORML’s work and point out that if it weren’t for NORML, you’d have to find someone else to launder money for your defense fund, and that your demeaning of NORML seems like a strange sort of gratitude.
You continue to call me “foolish” and claim I’m making excuses.
Again, for anyone who has lost track, the original point of this “all about Todd McCormick and how much he hates NORML” thread was that a high profile celebrity who is on NORML’s Advisory Board was trashing NORML publicly and I thought that was quite unhelpful to the movement. Can you please step away from the Todd McCormick Fan Club long enough to recognize my point which is, once again, “my lad”, that to the volunteer NORML activist working in Not California, who hears “stoner” hurled at him from rednecks, cops, and politicians, and who looks forward to HBO on Friday Nights to listen to one celebrity unafraid to call for an end to prohibition madness, to read that celebrity call him and the group he works for “a bunch of stoners” is very disheartening.
That’s it. That’s my point. One YOU have been very persistent on “making distractions” from to turn this thread into “Everything Todd McCormick, with his 15 years seniority and ability to bring 40,000 people to the LA Convention Center to look at glass and figure out how they can, too, cash in on the green gold rush that charges patients $15/gram for a weed, hates about NORML.”
Comments on this post are now closed because, frankly, I’ve heard enough from you trashing the fine organization that provides this very forum for you to trash it. Get your own freakin’ blog.
What is your point? That you lose debates poorly dear boy?
Well then, job well done; have fun ranting about nothing that matters.
As I think I have earned my right to speak my mind dear lad, I truly do.
WTF my legal defense fund has to do with the current norml state of affairs is beyond anybody reading; though thanks for proving I have had a long an intricate relationship with norml and may have just a little more information and reason to criticize than your four years has allowed you to see.
Best thing you could have done was inquire about the areas that need improvement instead of trying to create a distraction and making excuses.
Exactly my point. The way you thank an organization that helped you move $167,000 “for tax purposes” is telling. Which you are correct about saying “was [n]ever intended to fund anything other than my defense in the federal case.”
NOTE: NORML has never used money from donors to fund my defense fund: ever.
TRUTH: Some of the $380,000 that we spent on my defense in 1997 and 1998 went through the NORML foundation for tax purposes. Which is legal due to the scope and nature of my prosecution. None of the money that was used on my defense was ever intended to fund anything other than my defense in the federal case.
Russ, you really should not speak about what you obviously know nothing of, nor seem to understand. Your foolish comment about my defense fund over 11 years ago only confuses readers of this page and members of the organization. Why you are even mentioning it I simply don’t understand.
I am so over telling you that our concerns have nothing to do with you.
Have whatever kind of day you like~
See you there, Todd. Thanks for all the info. Stop on by the next time you need $167,000 for your defense.
Well to be honest, we could sure use Bill Maher’s help over here in his home State of New Jersey. We have worked hard to put together quite an impressive NORML-NJ Board, full of talent and wisdom; and we have a quickly growing membership, we are close to passing a medical marijuana bill, we have a network of volunteers effectuating a low-priority ordinance program and we have just begun to take our fundraising to a professional level. A little boost from someone as popular as Bill would likely do wonders for us right now– as it feels as though we are reaching critical mass in our State.
NORML-NJ is very ready to explore novel “Bill Maher-approved” methods of marijuana reform because we agree that past reform practices are just not cutting it… a combined effort between us (NORML-NJ & Bill Maher) could prove highly effective in yielding pragmatic results..that is if Bill really felt correcting our idiotic marijuana policies was worth his admittedly valuable time, other than that 1 minute of prohibition-bashing he does every other show– bashing which is great fun to listen to, but which is far and away the absolute MINIMUM of which Bill is obviously capable from his tremendous pulpit. I wish Bill would join us in NJ for a good brain storm. In fact, if I could speak to Bill for just 15 minutes, he would realize that NORML-NJ is worthy of his assistance. The marijuana reform movement really needs his full attention and I hope he answers the call. Bill, we are ready when you are!
Frederic DiMaria, Jr., Esq.
Chairman, NORML-NJ
Russ,
You really know not of what you speak. Erotica had no where near the attendance of the THC EXPO; our line of ticketing was so long on Saturday that the THC EXPO ticket line blocked the main entrance to Erotica three times and annoyed the Erotica owners so much that the Los Angeles Convention Center had to move our line down the main stairs; at which point it caught up to Erotica’s registration line and actually passed it going out the front door! Ask anybody who was there Saturday, they will glowingly tell you how much more popular THC was than sex at convention center that weekend. If you were to call the union who was responsible for all of the move in’s and move out’s and decorating, they would tell you that they think we had over 50,000 people there on Saturday alone (gate crashers), because that was what they were telling me that evening. The FREEMAN Co. told me that we blew away most, if not all, first time conventions they had done and the LACC told me we had less incidents than the Gift convention (Gift convention serves alcohol). We had many 20’ wide isles that were 300’ long and packed! You also have no idea of what we did in marketing; 1.8 million imprints of our LA Weekly ad over 8 weeks, over 80,000 stickers were passed out by various ‘street teams’, 450 commercials on LA’s largest rock n roll radio station KLOS for 3 weeks, ads in ever major (and many upstart) cannabis magazines (7 magazines made their debut at our expo), OC Weekly, IE Weekly and also 35 billboards throughout LA.
We had over 300 exhibitors, companies from 7 countries and well over 40,000 attendees that were not spill-over from the Erotica expo, trust me when I tell you that the old guys with the big bellies carrying cameras going into the Erotica expo were easy to spot.
Initially we thought it would be a good idea to pull from their audience, but in reality they brought nothing to the table. You far underestimate what is happening in the movement here in California when you said that you don’t think as many people would’ve came; there are over 500 clubs in LA alone now, you seem to have no idea how large the movement has grown, though I can understand that considering the organization your working for is shrinking. Just wait until next our next expo, I am not doing it next to Erotica and I will guarantee you I will blow away this years amazing attendance.
Again, I think I have to tell you that Bill’s criticisms and my complaints have nothing to do with you or your performance, you are not NORML and I doubt that any of the “billionaire donors” who you speak of that don’t bother to give to norml even know who you are. I am really not here to talk about you, as you are hardly the problem; keep on keeping on. But instead of making excuses, why don’t you just take a moment to stop and reflect? I believe there is always room for improvement in everything we do, I hardly think any organization is perfect, especially the one you are currently working for; I will reiterate that I am glad you are there doing your job and I wish there were more organizations like NORML, MPP, ASA, SAFER, LEAP, MAPS and more, I wish we could all work together because I think we all have the same goal.
Good luck at what you are trying to accomplish, we all want to be effective, we all want to see change happen, even Bill, myself and your proverbial “billionaire donors”.
And I have never used stage time to talk about the performance of a non-profit, there is far too many more important topics of conversation surrounding this movement. So I guess I will se you on the common this year~
Gee, Keith, you sure you want Todd speaking at a NORML event? Sounds like he wouldn’t have much good to say about your org…
Now, Todd, do please mention when you tout 40,000 at your Expo that it was right next to the Erotica Expo that was very heavily promoted. I’m not saying that what you’ve done wasn’t hella cool and really good promotion, but I don’t think 40,000 would’ve stopped by if the Home & Garden show was next door. Just sayin’.
Your “one man show” comments discount the work a lot of NORML activists in California are doing that aren’t “California NORML”. Besides, California is pretty well represented by many orgs doing work there.
As for “lack of support for local chapters”, please give me a little bit of time on the job to prove you wrong. I think if you polled the chapters they’d tell you I’ve been pretty involved in helping them organize (a little too involved in one case, maybe). The position of chapter outreach has gone unfilled for lack of a person of talent and communications who can afford to take the job at the low non-profit salary, and my hiring was a leadership decision by Allen to address this very complaint.
If it fits your personality and character more to throw stones, so be it. I’m not concerned about past sleights, perceived failures, or superstar egos. I’m here now and it is my goal to fertilize the grassroots and coordinate with the grasstops. Think what you will about the org, but please have the open-mindedness to believe that things can improve. It won’t happen overnight, but already I’ve been instrumental in developing chapters in places not as utopian as California (Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Denver, Columbia College [Chicago]), a couple new ones in California (High Sierra [Paradise] and San Luis Obispo), and I’m even getting people organized in the US Virgin Islands, Australia, and Mexico. I’m developing new procedures for chapter affiliation, new guidelines in selection of leaders for chapters, new requirements for chapter participation (i.e., no legal hotline referrals without actually tabling and being a community organization), and writing a guidebook for chapter operations to help new chapters become effective cells of activism. I’m also working with IT to create centralized NORML website on our server, so as to provide a state chapter network (ca.norml.org, or.norml.org, ut,norml.org, etc.), a simple turn-key website operation complete with online donations and membership, as part of my fifty-state strategy to have a highly-functioning chapter in every state by 2012.
I will give you credit – despite the bad economy, which causes our funders (unlike billionaires) to tighten their pockets a bit – we do need to raise more money. As we build more chapters and I continue outreach, people will see the value in NORML and will gladly donate, I’m betting my reputation on it.
One more thing about the Hollywood event: a young well-intentioned promoter Jonathan Burchell approached NORML about organizing a benefit for NORML. He’d pick up the costs. After a couple of stabs at making it happen in New York, Jonathan booked the show at the Avalon in LA instead, believing there was more talent out there and he was right, because with Bill, Tenacious D, Fieldy from Korn – I forget who else was on the bill – Jack Black, B-Real, Pauly Shore, Bill and his girtlfriend, Kyle Gass, Jack Herer. That’s a lot of star power for a an underattended event. In fact it was a really great show and Bill gave an awesome five-minute speech. The really sad part – besides NORML not making any money from the event – was that Johnathan, who flew planes in Africa tracking lions, crashed his plane and died shortly after the benefit. So I just wish people would remember the effort and money Jonathan poured into that show on behalf of NORML.
I actually don’t work for MPP, I’ll actually work for any organization in the movement that is being effective; I do my activism not for a paycheck but because I sincerely want to see change.
You think my comments are counter productive?
I think it’s a lot more counterproductive not to speak truth to power, I think it’s counterproductive to have a practical one man show in California NORML when there’s a population of over 30 million people, I think it’s counterproductive to have people like Alan working for the organization that don’t work well with other people and has an obvious inability to lead.
I guess all that norml wants us to do is keep our mouth shut and send in checks. I am personally tired of the lack of support for local chapters from national norml, I’m tired of Allen’s inability to raise money when there is obviously so many people donating to the likes of MPP, ASA and others. I would say that if people were not writing checks to normal it is because a lot more people are disillusioned with the organization but are apparently not saying so, they simply pulled their financial support, which to me speaks volumes.
I certainly don’t think my comments are counter productive to the movement, free speech ruffles feathers, but I certainly think there are a few feathers needing to be ruffled if we’re going to make the change we want.
And I certainly don’t think my activism is counterproductive to this movement at all, in fact, the 40,000+ people that just visited my THC EXPO at the Los Angeles Convention Center would probably disagree with you as well.
I am not loyal to any organization, I am loyal to trying to make change, excuse me if some of the people running this organization are running it into the ground.
Hey Todd,
Do you want to speak at the 20th annual Boston Freedom Rally? It’s Sept. 19, we will have 2 stages and plenty of speaking time. Maybe you could invite Bill to come. I promise he can be on stage at 4:20, and if we don’t get a hurricane, there will be way, way WAY more than 500 people there.
Get back to me on our myspace page: http://www.myspace.com/masscann, or I’ll hit you up there later.
Keith Saunders, Ph.D.
President, MassCann/NORML
Thanks for chiming in, Steve, with some first-person perspective. When these NORML history subjects come up, I’m still cramming for finals – I’ve only been in mj reform since 2005.
You’re probably right about Maher’s right to be pissed, it’s the holding of grudges and public dissing I’m upset about. I’m with you – let’s all work to get abong, er, along and support each other and make this a better movement for everyone.
Sheesh, I just gave myself a cavity.
I saw thank God we still have NORML to speak out for the rights of medical patients to grow their own for instance! MPP doesn’t care but to get a win. Doesn’t matter if it’s a good bill or bad. That’s why NORML is so important in my opinion.
I think both Maher’s and McCormick’s comments are counter-productive. New ideas? Really. Because I don’t like the ones I’ve seen. Bad ideas, more like it. Taxation without the option to grow your own? Is that one of the new MPP ideas?
I’ve never made a dime off of this, am a professional, former athlete, attend the hearings and promote them.
Without NORML, there is no local movement in MA. But for a few paid MPP people.
MPP’s great because they have money? Isn’t that really what you are saying Todd?
Discounting all the work of local chapter volunteers, folks like myself. That’s the only way I take this. MPP doesn’t want volunteers. They want people to sign confidentiality agreements. To sign over their free speech for what? For small money. NORML never ever pulls that crap. That’s why I respect NORML much more than MPP. No matter how many paid people say how great MPP is.
Who’s holding MPP accountable? One guy. Rob Kampia? Oh and his couple of funders. George Soros. Funny you brought up accountability. Tough to have that in the model you support….
Todd writes: “…what many of you don’t know is how Bill has tried to work with NORML; i.e; speaking at their national convention, making appearances for them and even doing his comedy show for them for free. The last time he made a comedy appearance for them was right on Hollywood Blvd and they managed do do such a bad job of organizing the event that less than 40 people were there.”
I was at the NORML event at the Avalon in Hollywood in 2003. Bill headlined along with Tenacious D. I’d say a couple of hundred people attended. But blame for that debacle really goes to Goldenvoice, who did a terrible job promoting the show, not NORML. Goldenvoice runs Coachella and if I recall correctly the festival was a few weeks away and Goldenvoice just dropped the ball for NORML. I remember Bill doing a brief monologue and then leaving, pissed. Some host. But the point was well taken. Don’t bring a celeb like Maher to an event that he can’t be proud of. He had a right to be pissed – or “disillusioned” as he says – at NORML over that event. But six years later, can’t he drop it and support NORML like an advisory board member should?
I have been supportive of NORML since the first time I became an activist, there is probably nobody in this movement I admire more than Keith Stroup; life has not been as easy for prohibitionists since October 1st, 1970.
But, I’ll stand by my words and feel free to criticize what I think is wrong and ineffective. We all sincerely want to see change in policy, we are all tired of the oppression. We all hope that soon NORML, MPP, ASA and others will be out of business, because we won’t need them anymore because they were also effective at what they did.
I personally recommend people do their own thing, we need more motivation in this movement, we need people not to live up to the stereotype of the stoner.
I wish you the best and I am glad you are there doing what you’re doing, please don’t take this personal because I really don’t even know who you are.
–Todd
But Todd, that’s exactly what I’m trying to do here: reach out to people and find out how we can make NORML better. Calling us “a bunch of stoners” said in public to a 3rd party news outlet does not constitute constructive criticism. It doesn’t exactly help me raise donations or sign on new members when a celebrity spokesman associated with the group calls the group I’m trying to get people to join “a bunch of stoners”.
As for hemp being in NORML’s vocab, Oregon NORML has worked with Sen Floyd Prozanski for years and has just passed an industrial hemp bill. As for medical marijuana, it is NORML local activists who gathered signatures for petitions in many of these states, like Michigan, who did the important leg work of setting the stage for reform in these states, only to be called “stoners” and to be dismissed, ignored, and belittled when the accounting of credit for these reforms is done. Some groups are mighty fond of the “stoners” of NORML when they need low-cost/free labor.
I think you and I are missing each other on my crucial point. You think of NORML as a few “old guy leaders” in Washington DC. I think of NORML as thousands of regular everyday cannabis consumers who face arrest, organizing at the local level to affect change. So when someone calls NORML “a bunch of stoners”, you may think it is a generalization about leadership, but I think of it as a slur against every one of the 22 million people NORML represents who use cannabis every year.
Believe me, I’m on the inside and I see many of the same problems you do. I want active NORML chapters – not just legal referral lines or one-man operations – in all fifty states and every democratic nation. But every time I approach the longtime lions of the movement, like you, all I get back are the dredged-up animosities of years’ past, turf-wars, grudges, complaints, bitching, back-biting, and insults (like “sitting on this little webpage and proselytizing about how cool you are and all the great work the organization you work for has done” and “You can ride on the coattails of how popular your NORML name is” and “instead of breaking your arm to pat yourself on the back because of how cool you are” – did I really deserve that after my polite reply to you?)
Sadly, you seem to fit that mold. You work hard to find reasons to slam Allen St. Pierre (what grudge are you holding?) with silly non-causal correlations like seeing donations drop during the Bush years as the economy has gone to hell and regular everyday working people who contribute to NORML (you know, people who aren’t billionaires) have to tighten their belts. I often note that we have more enemies amongst ourselves in the cannabis reform movement than we do from law enforcement and government! If you can do a better job, please, submit your name to our Board of Directors for consideration and you, too, can work fourteen-hour days, six-day weeks taking heaping helpings of shit from disgruntled people like you who supposedly want marijuana law reform, but take every opportunity to tear down the best-known group working for marijuana law reform. It does smack of elitism, that somehow the tie-dyes, the hippies, the tattooed, the pierced, the dreadlocked, the college kids, and the regular ordinary working class people who make up NORML are just “a bunch of stoners”.
Look, I don’t purport to be “cool” or anything other than a regular pot smoker of 19 years who got fed up with a drug test derailing his successful IT career four years ago and said, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take this anymore!” I’ve volunteered with Oregon NORML 2005-2009 and only for the past four months have I been NORML Outreach Coordinator (and talk about not being in this for a paycheck; you should see mine). I’ve read about you and Jack Herer, Dennis Peron, Tom Forcade, Valerie Corral, Keith Stroup, Dr. Tod Mikuriya, Dr. Lester Grinspoon, , Richard Cowan, Bill Panzer, et al for years and held you all up on a pedestal. I revere you people as giants and I’m honored to stand on your shoulders. I’m more than open to CONSTRUCTIVE criticism; I’m encouraging it. When an organization has existed for near 40 years, it is bound to have problems to be solved and processes to improve.
(By the way, if you’re going to offer the conspiracy theory that NORML lawyers don’t want to end prohibition because it threatens their lucrative market, you have to make the same claim about dispensaries. Why would a dispensary owner want legal pot that anyone can grow in big huge fields with modern harvesting technology that drops the price and profit margins out of the drug-dealer range and down to the alfalfa-farmer range? Personally, I don’t believe either. The dispensary owners and the criminal defense attorneys I know honestly want an end to marijuana prohibition.)
Finally, Todd, please believe that I don’t hold grudges and I’m very receptive to change. I’d like my tenure to mark the beginning of a new era at NORML and I’d love to have the help of smart and experienced activists like you. Email me anytime at russ@norml.org.
Can’t we all just get abong?
Right, right, he was talking about YOU! Silly for me to think he was generalizing and making comments that many of us feel is true. And I am really glad that you’re finally working for NORML and making a living trying to make a difference, but many of us have been working far longer than you for nothing other than a deep desire for change. Trust me when I tell you there are plenty of us in the movement that are not doing this for a paycheck.
National NORML has been doing a pathetic job of raising money and signing up new members in the last five years, and while I do not agree with all of MPP’s strategies, I do support the work they’re trying to do and I wish there were more people competing with NORML and MPP and SAFER and ASA and DPA, etc., because the movement needs any support it can get.
And you’re absolutely right that you could say the same the same thing about longevity being a failure when your purpose is so pointed in regards to any of these organizations.
Personally I do to believe that there should be term moments for all of the organizations, it works for our political offices, why not implemented it in the nonprofit sector? Maybe we would get some new blood in there and maybe we would get some new enthusiasm.
For a long time now activists like myself have been trying to get Hemp and medical marijuana as part of NORML’s vocabulary and it has been very difficult, support for these issues has come slow if it has come in all, the environmental movement surrounding Hemp and the huge swell of support for medical marijuana did not come from NORML my friend, NORML and even MPP did not really respond until it was impossible for them not to.
But again, everybody is entitled to their opinion, if people like you have a problem with what he is saying maybe you should do something about it, maybe something more than sitting on this little webpage and proselytizing about how cool you are and all the great work the organization you work for has done.
I think it’s high time for change, personally I am tired of the approach of NORML, they spend more time accommodating attorneys than they do coming up with a new strategies. I personally don’t believe that the lawyers are actually all that motivated to end the current prohibition, I mean really, how many of them actually make a living off of the backs of people ONLY affected by the prohibition of marhuana and don’t want to go back to having to defending actual criminals.
Seriously, how many of the normal offices are run by attorneys and are simply just legal referral lines? LA NORML anyone?
I think we’re all sick of it, why do you think you’re support is shrinking when cannabis is more popular now than it has ever been! I actually read your 990 tax forms, I have watched the financial support for this organization drop under Allen’s reign. I think it’s high time for a change, I really do, and I know I am not the only person coming from that perspective.
You can ride on the coattails of how popular your NORML name is, same with High Times, sure everybody knows there corporate name, but nobody reads their magazine anymore; sure everybody knows NORML’s name, but very few people are making donations: instead of breaking your arm to pat yourself on the back because of how cool you are, maybe you should take a look at why people feel the way they do and are making the type of comments that Bill made; because I have heard a lot more people making the same types of comments that Bill made; sadly their voices just are not as loud or publicized.
–Todd McCormick
Thank you for your reply, Todd. Here’s my main problem with Maher’s comments: we’ve got enough enemies in law enforcement and government that we don’t need to be publicly attacking each other. Disillusioned with NORML? Fine, but bring that PRIVATELY to the TO THE BOARD OF ADVISORS YOU SIT ON, don’t bash the very people who started the marijuana law reform movement and the hard-working volunteers who continue this legacy PUBLICLY.
You can (rightfully) laud Peron’s successes dating back to his 1978 raid through 1996′s Prop 215, but who set the climate of 11 decriminalized states beginning in 1970 that gave Peron the cultural springboard to work from? I’m well aware of the NORML history, Hefner’s involvement, the Bourne incident, etc., but it is still NORML that enjoys the highest-trafficked marijuana law reform website, the highest brand-name recognition among “stoners” and “squares” alike, the largest network of dedicated volunteer activists, the highest positive approval ratings among “stoners”, and the biggest library of news, studies, and analysis on marijuana law reform. Rather than try to tear down the 800lb. gorilla, why not work with it to get our common agenda passed?
(Well, maybe a common agenda. Seeing as how MPP wants to lock Arizona patients into forced dispensary black-market street-priced purchases and NORML will never trade away a cannabis consumer’s right to cultivate, perhaps we don’t have a common agenda. Seeing as how I have local NORML chapters giving away medicine and plants for free to patients and MPP seems hellbent on making sure some middleman gets rich off sick people’s suffering, maybe the twain shall never meet.)
I take the comments personally because I’ve worked my ass off for four years for free before I worked for NORML, at the local level with Oregon NORML. Dan Linn, Chris Goldstein, Josh Schimberg, Madeline Martinez, and many many more local activists get up early, work hard FOR FREE, and do everything they can to be the opposite of stereotype, only to have an alleged supporter and member of the advisory board denigrate them all as “stoners”. (Shit, I even paid money for “Religulous”! I hope my “stoner” money feels good in his pocket.)
You may as well paint MPP, DPA, and others with the same broad brush you paint NORML when you say “do you really think that 40 years of being in business in a mark of success? I see it as failure”. Yes, I suppose it is all NORML’s fault that we haven’t been able to overcome 100 years of fear-mongering, 70 years of prohibition, and 35 years of outright “war” on marijuana, what with our non-profit status, volunteer activists vs. a $40,000,000,000 drug war industrial complex. By that measure, the NAACP is a “failure” because discrimination still exists.
So, how come, after 14 years (and much much greater funding), MPP hasn’t ended prohibition? Are they “celebrating” their 14th year in business? At which anniversary when prohibition still exists should we consider MPP to be utilizing “old stale ideas being tried over and over by the same old men holding onto their ego’s and little positions of power”? Because this is a marathon, not a sprint, Todd, and you should know that better than most. MPP’s 39th anniversary will be 2034. I’ll be 76 years old; if it is still illegal for me to smoke a joint in any of the 50 states, can I then “demand TERM-LIMITS on the directors”?
And sorry, growing up in New Jersey is not a vaccine against Hollywood elitism when you’ve lived and worked in Hollywood longer than you lived and worked in New Jersey. So a comedy show was poorly planned seven years ago and got only 40 people and the comedian is miffed and refuses to work with – or even communicate with – an organization he allegedly supports, does that not strike you as a bit “elitist”? “What, only 40 people, why that’s a waste of my time! I’m 5,000-people important!” I think the good-ol’ Jersey boy shtick probably expires around the time a major broadcast television network gives you a nightly soapbox and your bank account hits seven digits.
Look, I like Bill Maher – love him as a satirist and political commentator. I love that he is one of the few consistent talking heads on my TV speaking out against marijuana prohibition (funny, though, how he’ll never give a shout-out to either NORML or MPP when doing so, but can’t say “PETA.org” enough every chance he gets). And I’m not naive enough to think that NORML hasn’t had failures in the past and couldn’t improve on organization and fundraising in the present; as Outreach Coordinator, I put in 12-15 hour days every day for 1/1000th what Bill Maher makes, trying everything in my power to improve the organization. I’m just saying that my job would be a lot easier if one of our movement’s top celebrities wouldn’t call me a “stoner” in the national media.
In defense of Bill Maher~
I feel almost obligated to write and put on record where Bill is coming from; what many of you don’t know is how Bill has tried to work with NORML; i.e; speaking at their national convention, making appearances for them and even doing his comedy show for them for free. The last time he made a comedy appearance for them was right on Hollywood Blvd and they managed do do such a bad job of organizing the event that less than 40 people were there. Mind you, this is just 7 miles from the Gibson Amphitheater which he just sold out to the tune of 5400 people; NORML doesn’t even get that they are just wasting his time and not utilizing any where near potential.
And whoever wrote this can joke that Bill just attended the MPP/Playboy party to pick up his next girl but who are they kidding? I have been one of the main organizers of the Playboy parties for MPP and Bill came to that event on my request to the event because we are trying to include a very powerful community of supporters that live in Hollywood and there is no better place to do that than Hef’s mansion. And nobody knows that more than NORML because it was in fact Hugh Hefner who helped found NORML back in 1970 and continued to fund and support NORML and even let NORML have it’s parties at the mansion until he got a little disillusioned with the progress of NORML himself.
NORML is about to celebrate (Really?) their 39th year in business, but I have to ask my fellow activists: do you really think that 40 years of being in business in a mark of success? I see it as failure; I see it as old stale ideas being tried over and over by the same old men holding onto their ego’s and little positions of power. The reason MPP is hosting parties in the backyard of one of the founders of NORML is because NORML has not got the organizational capabilities of doing it themselves. The definition if insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, well my friends, I think it’s time we demand TERM-LIMITS on the directors and get some fresh ideas and direction in this organization or do we really want to be here in another 38 years wishing NORML was not so normal?
These people like Allen and Dale should have to actually deserve their positions instead of letting them just collect dust like some overly-respected aging icon. This issue is too big and too important for a practical one-man operation like we have with CA NORML and Nationally can we really afford the inability of our NATIONAL NORML office to lead, fundraise and implement the change they talk about? I am tired of watching NORML ride the coat backs of activists like Dennis Peron who actually was the one who got medical marijuana legalized here in Cali, not NORML, though if you read what they write, they will take credit for it as they always do.
Disclaimer; I am a personal friend of Maher and he use to even visit me in federal prison for my marijuana offence. He attended my THC EXPO held in the Los Angeles Convention Center June 13 & 14th and he has attended every activist function I have asked him to since 1997. The guy grew up in Jersey and worked his behind off to get where he is today. Hollywood Elitist: no way. Opinionated: for sure. I think his comments may be painful but like most humor, carry a light of truth.
–Todd McCormick
I’m surprised so many seem to have missed the point. Maher is a comedian…get it?
In fact, he’s done lots to dispell the stereotype. I can’t say I’ve ever seen him comment on cannabis while stoned. Unfortunately, there are influential people (like Marc Emory making public statements in front of video cameras while obviously toasted)who tend to perpetuate the stereotype.
I doubt alochol prohibition was ended because folks listened to comments from visibly drunk activists.
We should be delighted Maher brought subject up! Any time someone with his popularity voices pro-cannabis views, it is a good thing.
We call people who drink alcohol drinkers. we usually don’t refer to them as drunks or drunkards. Why call people who use cannabis stoners?
When you think of the term, STONERS, is the image that comes to mind Barack Obama, Michael Phelps, or someone like Bill Maher? Or is it the image of someone like Jim Breuer or Cheech or Chong, stoned to the bone?
Yes, those kinds of stoners are everywhere. They don’t know how to behave when they’re high. They act stupid. They act f*cked up. They serve as an embarassment to cannabis consumers who know how to behave. They make us all look bad. They are the reason they call it dope.
So please don’t call me a stoner.
Stoners are to cannabis consumers what obnoxious drunks are to drinkers.
You got 10% commitment! That’s fantastic!
Look, I know exactly what you’re talking about; I’m the guy getting 60 inquiries a month from people claiming to be all excited about starting a NORML chapter, until I tell them they actually have to recruit four others, fill out a form and send it to the state, and do something other than bitch on the computer while pulling bong rips.
As my mentor Madeline Martinez says, “Put the joint down, step away from the bong, and write a letter!”
However, complaining that the majority of the people we serve are “a bunch of stoners” would be like Rev. Al Sharpton complaining that his constituency are “a bunch of…” uh, you get the idea.
In a sense I understand what he’s talking about Russ. I’m working in the grassroots level here in Florida for People United for Medical Marijuana and I have a very tough time getting people to show up mostly because they’re too stoned to get up off their asses. I know people like us understand that you work first then play but I had 65 people “confirm” that they were going to a 4/20 rally at 12pm and only 6 showed up. The rest? Getting stoned. It’s not easy being the leader of people who don’t put their priorities in order.
Last week there was a poll on this site regarding the word stoner. Am I the only one that checked the “offensive when used by non-smokers, but okay when used by fellow smokers” box? I am a big fan of Bill, and he frequently mentions on his show how stupid our drug laws are, as well as his appreciation for this wonderful plant. Perhaps he should use better judgement, but over all, I think he is a positive voice for the cause.
Yes, exactly. If a Democrat came on and said the sky was blue, the media would rush to find a Republican to say the sky is green, so they wouldn’t be accused of “liberal bias”.
Global warming, evolution, the evil of torture, the futility of prohibition… there are just some issues where there aren’t two valid opinions, there’s the acknowledgment of the truth and the denial of the truth.
Bill Maher’s mouth works faster than his brain.
The elitism in his comment just boggles the mind. Exactly where does he find the gall to denigrate the labors of other reformers?
When it comes to the efforts of legalization activists, it’s a lot harder to work a long day in the hot sun at the county fair for no money than it is to give an interview to a national magazine.
Most people don’t have assistants to fetch bottled water, pick out all the green M&Ms, feed us grapes, etc.
I guess Bill Maher has forgotten what it’s like to be a normal (NORML) person and to have many, heavy responsibilities on a single set of shoulders.
Bill Maher should gain a little humility and learn to respect others’ work. If he’s going to try his hand at constructive criticism, he should first learn what the fuck he’s talking about.
Bill Maher is no revolutionary, he is as elitist as they come. I wouldn’t count on him for much besides being publicly anti-prohibition.
But the 50/50 situation comment was spot on!
AHHHHHHHH!! BILL MAHERS BEEN BRAIN WASHED..RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!!
idk what to make of this one yall 
Is this guy kidding? NORML has done more than any other marijuana reform organization. I admit, a little money to state chapters would be VERY helpful but him saying this could not of been more detrimental to the cause. I don’t think NORML should automatically kick him off, don’t stoop to his level. Show him everything we’re doing and ask him what he is willing to do to help us. I can personally think of 5 or 6 ways he could help us here in NJ(WHERE HE GREW UP!) alone. But, calling us a “bunch of stoners” in a derogatory way will just fuel the oppositions argument of marijuana making people unproductive.
Bill, comments like these will set us back more than “stoners” for this cause ever have.
But, that doesn’t mean its not too late to start working TOGETHER. If you didn’t talk to us for a few years maybe you will realize we’re not unproductive at all, once you’re memory is refreshed.
I agree. He has one of the tallest soap boxes going right now with his HBO show and I don’t see a whole lot of effort coming from him on the issue.
How about we ask our board members to stop being lazy stoners (that’s you Bill) and start using the tools they have to wake up America.
I bet I spent more time, money and effort this year than he has.
I like Bill, Alot, have for years and this isnt the first time he has said this very same thing. The point he is making is true we need a strong lobby and now. But on the other hand he puts down all of us that are working for change.
How ever he is trying to make a joke all the time. So for him to get a smile from usiong the word stoner, well he will. Does it make it right? NO! But he has done alot to better our cause, in the long run, its better he has been on our side!
But Bill Geeze, stop beating your friends!