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NeuroGenesis1:29 says:
May 29, 2009 at 6:27 am
- The microbrews took-off after president Carter
re-legalized home-brewing of beer in the 70’s.
(Up to that time, wine was the ONLY homebrewing allowed)
CORRECTION of ORIGINAL POST:
Added the word ONLY
- The microbrews took-off after president Carter
re-legalized home-brewing of beer in the 70′s.
(Up to that time, wine was the homebrewing allowed).
- When cannabis is re-legalized, tax-free, non-licensed homegrowing ought to be allowed as well.
- This is where California’s and Massachusetts’ proposed tax and regulation acts are better.
(From what I know about OCTA,
the state of Oregon is supposed be the only one allowed to grow and sell cannabis, and retail-purchasers have to be approved by the state to purchase cannabis, as well…)
I agree that we should be allowed our rights, but who will stop you from harvesting your own free from taxation. I think Oregon should move the proposed tax from beer (which will have a definite effect on the micro scene) to cannabis. Best of both worlds, legal buds and we wont be paying upwards of $10 for a six pack.
A quick search of Stash for “OCTA” didn’t turn up much information. Maybe you could write up a report on the demise of OCTA and proposed non-OLCC reincarnations of the act. It doesn’t sound very different, if the main change is the retail outlet. What’s going on with that?
-ED
That’s great news! Sorry I missed the edition of Stash when that news was announced.
I still don’t think we agree about taxation of cannabis, though. Maybe I don’t understand your position clearly. Oregon does not have a sales tax. I think commercial operations should pay reasonable taxes to fund government operations. If a tax were targeted specifically at cannabis, and it was no more burdensome than what we pay for, say, milk, then I would probably not object to that. However, I have never gotten the impression that such reasonable taxation was being pitched.
Way back in 1970, or there about, Tim Leary was championing “legalization” and taxation of cannabis. I believe the suggestion was $1000/year for a license to not be harassed. This was 1970 dollars – ouch! Now, I think the whole world owes Tim and his cohorts at Harvard a lot for their analysis of how to properly use consciousness altering substances. Their work points the way to how powerful consciousness altering substances can be used in modern society. It shows stupid white men how to adventure safely through the forgotten wilderness of their own minds. But, to propose a $1000/year tax (1970 dollars) just to use cannabis without the threat of imprisonment – that’s outrageous. I think the cost of a brand new Volkswagen Beetle was about $2000 back then. This is elitist. Sure, when you are hobnobbing with Hollywood bigshots, a grand a year might not be too much. But, what about the common people? Even if they could afford it, it would be unjustifiably burdensome.
If you are suggesting that the tax for an ounce of high quality cannabis be about the same as is paid on a gallon of milk, a Big Mac with fries, or a pound of beef, I would probably not bother to argue against that. However, if you want to add specific taxes to this one product burdening the consumers for an additional $100, $50, or even $10, I would be against that. In principle, I would object to any tax that is applied specifically because the product is cannabis. However, a very low tax would not justify a great deal of effort in opposition.
What I would like to see is an end to prohibition. I want the government to acknowledge the right of citizens to use consciousness altering substances responsibly. The prohibition of cannabis was brought about by a propaganda campaign of outright lies to terrify a nation of naive citizens into forfeiting their hard fought for freedoms to an oppressive government. That needs to be reversed.
My position is that the government has no legitimate interest in prohibiting citizens from using consciousness altering substances for religious, medical, or recreational purposes.
I do not object to appropriate regulation for the purpose of minimizing the harm caused by those who do not use these substances responsibly.
-ED
man idc how it gets done at this point..JUST MAKE IT LEGAL U GOVT PIGS!
You keep arguing against OCTA, which is something that doesn’t exist anymore. That language isn’t being proposed by anyone anymore.
So, generally speaking, are we in agreement about cannabis being a product like any other that should be taxed, regulated, and controlled?
I believe that the best way to legalize responsible use of cannabis is to do it in the courts. You have a natural right to use cannabis responsibly for religious, medical, and recreational purposes. The government has no legitimate interest in prohibiting the responsible use of cannabis.
Of course, the court process could be very expensive. If I had the funds, I would do it. My consciousness is not the domain of any government. Neither is yours. But, the enemies of freedom will always try to control your consciousness. If the citizens permit the government to disrespect their rights, then the government will be more than happy to do so. Going through the legislature is a capitulation that the legislature actually has some authority to regulate your responsible use of cannabis. It has no such authority.
Still, you certainly have the right to withhold your vote from any candidate for office who supports the current oppressive policy of prohibition. You can let them know in advance that you will not vote for them unless you see them taking real action in the legislature to end this outrageous policy. Then, when it comes time to vote, if they haven’t worked to put an end to this policy, don’t vote for them. If you vote for politicians who support blanket prohibition, then you are voting against your own freedom and the freedom of all other citizens. If politicians learn that ending prohibition is the only way they can remain in office, then, and only then, will they end prohibition.
If you identify and support candidates who are willing to end prohibition, that will expedite the process. You should drop support for anyone who has ever supported prohibition. Even if they change their position in order to get your vote, they will stab you in the back at their earliest convenience. And Big Money, along with their tool, Big Media, will be there to support them. Use Big Media to help you identify who not to vote for. It’s easy. Those with the most frequent and slick commercials are most likely whores for Big Money. If Big Media identifies a candidate as “not electable,” then take a close look at that one. He or she may be the right person to support. It’s not a sure thing, though. Examine it closely and consider it carefully before making your decision.
-ED
OCTA does not address the private production of cannabis for personal use. It is claimed that the law, if passed, will allow citizens to grow their own cannabis. But, the legislature would put an end to that long before any court cases could be heard. Home grow operations would compete with the state’s commercial operation, thus driving down the potential price that consumers would be willing to pay. This would hurt state revenues and would have to be stopped immediately. The legislation has probably been written already, just in case voters are taken in by this campaign. OCTA is a bad law. It appears to me that it is intended to benefit primarily those who would like to establish commercial hemp and/or cannabis production operations. Read the proposed law. Look at who is sponsoring this legislation.
-ED
You misunderstand. I’m not saying that it would be unreasonable to tax commercial operations involved in producing or distributing cannabis. Taxing of the commercial hemp market could provide additional income for our state. Great. My problem is with the way that OCTA deals with taxes. It imposes no taxes on the hemp or cannabis production industry. It puts the full burden of taxation on the individual non-medical user. That is unfair and unreasonable. Fine, tax commercial operations. I have never argued against that. I primarily argue against general prohibition. The government has no legitimate authority to prohibit responsible use of cannabis. End prohibition. But, the government does have a responsibility to regulate the use of any such substance in order to minimize abuse which causes harm. This is a legitimate interest of the government. I believe that the cost of this regulation should come from the general fund, not special taxes or fees.
I think that there are already hemp products being sold in Oregon. But, wait, there are no special taxes placed on those items. We should set up a government agency to set specific taxes on these items, to be payed by the consumer. The commission should analyze the market and drive the tax as high as possible, just to the point that consumers are about to produce their own hemp or go to the black market for their hemp. This would maximize the revenue for the state. Of course, individual production could be made illegal, thus leaving the consumers only the choice of the black market (or cotton) as an alternative.
Do you see how idiotic that sounds?
Fine. But, none of these items have special taxes payed by consumers and regulated by a state agency dedicated to maximizing revenue by forcing the taxes to remain as high as the market will bear.
Regarding individual production for personal use, there has already been at least one attempt to prohibit consumer production of cannabis for medical use. I don’t know if that one has been killed yet, or not. But, home production of cannabis would drive down the market price of commercial cannabis. As OCTA does not address home production, this would be one of the first holes to be eliminated by the state legislature, should OCTA pass. BTW, I think that there is some legitimacy to the argument that the government has an interest in ensuring safety and quality of medical cannabis provided by commercial operations. This may be another legitimate target for regulation. But, if you grow it yourself, for your personal use, then you should take full responsibility for the safety and quality of the product.
-ED
There are no shortage of micro breweries. That is the only beer I drink. Good Ale. Good Beer.
Brewed correctly. Not like industrial beer at all.
…. I hope they don’t legalize pot but keep homegrowing illegal!
Wow, homebrewing wasn’t legal till ’79? Did not know that.
BTW Russ, I do like those hops from the Willamette valley.
Hey now! I am a homebrewer, which wasn’t legal until 1979…46 year after alcohol prohibition ended. I also make wine, which was relegalized in 1933 for making at home at the same time prohibition ended. Sometimes, the law does not make sense.
Our forward-thinking attitude toward hemp and cannabis would create jobs, revitalize our farming communities, boost tourism, and create millions of dollars in revenue for the state. If you don’t know much about cannabis, we urge you to take the time to learn about the plant.
And to respond to a related complaint Russ, you know, ending alcohol prohibition and taxing the commercial production of booze wiped out microbrews. You know, the only choice the consumer has is Budweiser now.
Yup, just like how paying sales tax on beer eliminated everyone’s right to brew beer at home, untaxed and unlicensed. Remember how after alcohol prohibition ended, everybody permanently lost their right to use alcohol responsibly without harassment from the government? And how all the hops fields became nationalized by the “Big Monster” and how “Big Media” engaged in that campaign to opposed responsible use of alcohol. Just like that, right?
Why do you think legal cannabis, unlike every other commodity in our capitalist society, should be tax free?
If we “just end prohibition”, then marijuana = alfalfa = pickup trucks = running shoes = hamburgers = corn as far as legality goes. If you want to grow pot or alfalfa or corn or even build your own pickup truck or stitch your own running shoes, “Big Monster” is cool with that. If you want to sell pot, alfalfa, corn, running shoes, or pickups, you’ll have to follow regulations and pay taxes just like everyone else.
Seems to me the only people against treating marijuana like every other legal, regulated, taxed crop are the black market dealers who couldn’t compete if they actually had to engage in reputable business practices. Dealers who like the life of farming, but prefer the profits of organized crime. People who’d rather see 872,721 arrests and 50,000 people behind bars than to have to pay a tax to a “Big Monster”.
ED, your position only makes sense if you are calling for an end to all sales taxes on all commodities and a reliance solely on income taxes. Please explain why beer, tobacco, and corn should be taxed and regulated, but cannabis shouldn’t.
Of course the cop in the video is not for legalization. If they legalize marijuana his funding will be cut and he will have to drive around in a ford escort or a chevy cavilier instead fo that fancy $40,000 mastang in the video !!
If only they would stop just doing it state by state and just say ok lets talk about nation wide! save a lot of time and trouble.
Money is too powerful. How else could you convince them to end prohibition? That it’s wrong? I think taxation is a lesser evil and it may be a necessity, but the true atrocity happens when people that can get a medical doctor’s authorization have to pay any tax at all.
No. Why should anyone pay a tax to exercise his or her own freedom?
Want to send some money to the government? Contact these guys. I’m sure they will be happy to make arrangements.
Do you want to be free? Then demand that the government respect your rights. Vote out the a-holes who do not respect your rights.
There is clearly a move by Big Money to “legalize and tax” cannabis. You might get your wish. But, if you think this is a step in the right direction, you are wrong. It will probably ensure that your right to use cannabis responsibly, without harassment from the government, will be lost permanently. There will be enough people who will be willing to tolerate this unfair tax burden that it will be hard to mobilize the population to work for true freedom. And, Big Money will be happy to take your cash. They will use Big Media to build opposition to any further loosening of restrictions on the availability and/or use of cannabis. Taxes will be driven as high as the market will bear. This is designed into OCTA.
No, it is not time for Oregon to legalize cannabis and tax it. It is time for Oregon, and the federal government to respect the rights of citizens. It is time for the citizens to demand that their rights be respected. Don’t grovel and offer to pay off Big Monster.
End prohibition. Just end prohibition. Pay taxes on your income. Clean up the government. Stop voting for the enemies of freedom.
-ED
Now if only something this good was on every local news station.