It seems like not a week goes by that I don’t see something in the NORML Blog’s comments similar to this:
re; Recent legalization initiative efforts in Colorado, Nevada (twice), and Alaska have all failed at the ballot box,
in a foolish attempt to win over the people who can NEVER be won over (for whatever reason, ideology or $$$ vested interest) they put in too-low limits, (1 ounce), rediculus restrictions, way beyond what is required for alcohol or prescription drugs, no legal access, (o.k. to have, illegal to sell or grow, etc) harsher provisions for some things, (for smokers who have kids who might see, or smell, something, but are NOT being harmed in any way), causing MANY pro-pot people to vote against it.
then, next time, we seem to say, “well, we lost last time, we need to give up even more to the other side this time”
“treat pot like alcohol or tobacco” gets OVER 50%. if people feel (falsely) that they are in the minority, they will stay in the closet.when they know they are truly in the majority, they will make their voices heard, we will legalize, and some pepole will be out of their cushy jobs.
(cops),(prison guards),
(drug dealers),
(you).
Yes it’s the old “NORML secretly doesn’t want legalization because they would go out of business” theory. Damn! Our double-secret classified master plan to keep pot illegal so we can roll around in piles of cash in our stately penthouse suite has been discovered! I was hoping that by driving around in an eleven-year-old used car with major body damage and a rear differential that sounds like a bad shopping cart wheel, I would hide the luxurious wealth I enjoy in my cushy job moderating comments at the NORML blog. You know, I was just thinking about this last time I voted against a pro-pot initiative because it wasn’t good enough. I thought, you know, it’s a good thing 850,000 people a year have their lives upended paying $400/ounce for plant matter so I can live such an opulent lifestyle.
I thought we were alone in this kind of double-cross – promoting legalization when we really don’t want it because working in the non-profit, donation-supported political advocacy sector is so financially and materially rewarding. Turns out, though, that there are plenty of us working in advocacy non-profits that secretly don’t want what we’re fighting for because it would cost us our jobs. For example, my friends working for PETA really do want to see more puppies abused and tortured because it keeps the donations flowing. My pals at Greenpeace really do love to see more Japanese whaling because every dead cetacean is another dollar for the cause. My NAACP buddies don’t really want to see an end to racial discrimination because they’d have to find real work. Al Gore is just crossing his fingers and hoping you’ll burn some more coal so he can win another Nobel Prize. Just like we here at NORML really want marijuana to remain forbidden so we can write blog posts, answer emails, lobby politicians, appear on radio and TV, and travel across the country working 60-80-hour weeks for something we don’t believe in.
If only we were better at masking our true intentions, like the guys in the grassy knoll, the directors on the moon landing soundstage, and the explosives experts in the basement of the World Trade Center, maybe we could have gotten away with it all.
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I told the last cop who busted me for weed that I would one day invite him to my home to smoke with me. He seemed a little embarrassed. Howzat fer spreadin’ the word? lol
Maybe I will be Supreme Cannabinator for Life.
-ED
Right on, man. It is exactly that simple. Spread the word.
-ED
Thanks for considering my thoughts. For me, the real issue is not cannabis. The real issues are freedom, and the proper role of government. These are root issues that affect many areas of our society. Why does the government do what it does? Why do we allow the government to do what it does?
I don’t really have a problem with taxes. I am concerned, though, about how government funds are raised, and how the money is spent. Once, I heard a recorded lecture by Helen Caldicott. In this lecture, she said that she, as a resident of Australia, paid about 50% in income taxes, if I recall correctly. This sounds high, but she was content with the deal. The taxes covered medical care, and a university level education. The US government will not give the people a university level education. It does not want an educated population. And, as we are about to see, it will provide only as much medical care as the people force it to provide. In doing so, it will take every opportunity to screw the people. You’ll see.
Our country would be such a better place, such a powerful force – potentially for good – in the world, if the government would fund education and health care for the people. Instead, much is wasted in a doomed effort to maintain military dominance over the rest of the world. Want an education? Well, you’re not entitled to it, but just join the military and, if you survive the commitment, you will receive some assistance. Don’t get your hopes up about the medical care, though. Look how easily the President dismissed the possibility of single payer health care. Poof. Like blowing the seeds from a dandelion.
Yeah. It would be disruptive to the profits of the “medical” industry. Well, just like that, single payer was dismissed. Sure, there are a few radical crackpots still trying to champion single payer health care, but they are dismissed by Big Media, thus much of the country will remain ignorant of these efforts.
Well, I guess I’ve strayed from the topic of cannabis. But, as I stated above, for me, the real issues are freedom and the proper role of government. We all need to give some thought to how the people are manipulated into tolerating this crap. If we are a free people, with a government playing its proper role, the cannabis issue will no longer exist.
-ED
Should there then be no special taxes on alcohol and tobacco? How about those strange hotel and airline taxes I end up paying when I travel? And what of some states (like mine) that don’t have sales taxes, can we tax cannabis?
I get your points and you really do make a good philosophical case. But many items in commerce have different taxes applied to them for different reasons, some good (let’s not tax staple food items and medicine), some bad (Congressman X gets a special deal for his home state industry). My instinct tells me that what will pass will be a tax far higher than you or I would like, but overall we’ll be paying less than what pot costs on the black market (else gub’mint can’t compete). I’m not going to by a legal $300 ounce + $100 tax when the dealer will sell it to me for $350, for example. So the licensed seller has to sell it for $200 + $100 tax. Then the dealer has to slash prices to compete. Finally the price bottoms out to where sellers can’t make profit (but the dealers still can), and this now-substantial market begins clamoring for lower pot taxes. Eventually the price and the tax settle on something reasonable (maybe a $15 ounce and a $5 tax).
Or maybe not… Economics ain’t my bag. Regardless, nothing can happen until marijuana is a legal (taxed) regulated product, whether it’s taxed or over-taxed is no concern to me. Once it’s legal, market realities and political pressure can affect the marijuana trade. If the choice is legal overtaxed weed now vs. legal weed later, I don’t know that I can abide the arrests and suffering it will take to wait it out.
However, you may be more right about the possibility of absolute freedom on the issue than I think. That most recent Gallup poll showed very little difference in respondents’ attitudes whether it was phrased as “legalize it” or “help economy by taxing it”.
I respect your well-considered opinion, ED. You always make me think.
P.S. I really think MPP’s commercial itself doesn’t necessarily endorse the notion of a special tax, but merely a tax. For if you are paying 0% taxes on medical marijuana (bought illegally) now, and then your normal grocery produce taxes are added, wouldn’t you be paying more taxes? However, in context of knowing about MPP’s various initiatives, you’re on to something…
I agree with E D paying a tax above and beyond what every other commercial product pays is just extortion.
I could see if there were extraneous costs, for instance we pay for roads (theoretically) with taxes on fuel. With weed there are no roads to repair. Why should we pay extra? How are we different? Wouldn”t we we just be paying a premium for being allowed to rejoin society?
It’s probably a John English or John Walters spewing this. My guess is that the folks that work for NORML can’t wait to relegalize it so they can sit back and actually enjoy a joint. They think they can stop us by discrediting our network or discouraging legalizers from banning together. NORML is the largest group of activists I have seen in a legalization movement. I can see how that would be threatening to certain parties.
Just my $0.02
Ah righto, I mistook your meaning.
Good argument there, it is a kind of submissive, weak, and insecure action to say please, please, overtax me.
Thanks for the clarification.
I never said don’t regulate it. And I never said don’t tax it.
Regulation, rather than prohibition, is the proper role of government in the management of sacramental/medical/recreational consciousness altering substances like cannabis. The government must have the ability to intercede in cases where citizens cause problems through irresponsible use of these substances. It has no legitimate authority to oppress us all by prohibiting the responsible use of these substances.
I have never objected to normal taxes on cannabis commerce. What I object to are special taxes, just because the product is cannabis. There is no reason for this, and we should not tolerate it. We certainly should not champion the idea of special taxes for cannabis. Campaigns like MPP’s “I want to pay more taxes” commercial are idiotic. Shame on them. If you want to pay more taxes, all you have to do is write a check to the relevant tax collection agency. You need not burden everyone with unnecessary and unwanted taxes. So, please, go ahead and get your check book out and write that check.
Walk down the produce section of your grocery store. All of the items there are subject to normal commercial taxes. I expect that cannabis should be subject to all of the same commercial taxes. I have no objection to that. I object to special taxes being added just because the product is cannabis.
-ED
Evil Dick, you honestly think what you’re proposing will ever happen? The only reason marijuana legalization has advanced to the point it is today is because of the ‘revelation’ that it can be taxed like anything else.
Just legalize it, but don’t regulate and tax it? One, never happen. Two, stupid idea anyway. We live in a commercial society. The only way you’re ever going to smoke some legal, non-taxed and un-regulated bud is on your own island.
Is this the opening salvo in the campaign for whatever “legalize it and tax it” legislation has been dreamed up to replace OCTA? I hope not. But, I do have to wonder where that came from.
NORML’s nearly 40 year record is visible to everyone still sitting around wishing for an end to prohibition. Sure, there are probably many unpaid volunteers who work tirelessly in the effort to legalize and tax cannabis. But, there are probably also a few at the top who have done quite well through the contributions of members. I’m not saying that the leaders of the organization are deliberately trying to keep cannabis illegal. But, the path NORML has chosen to legalization – through the legislature – is among the least likely to be successful, as we can all see. Sure, there have been indications that Big Money has come around and might see the potential value of the market. Anyone who has seen Fox come on with stories about how it is time to legalize it and tax it should be aware that evil is afoot. Big Evil. That is why the cry is “Legalize it and tax it,” rather than just “Legalize it!” Big Money wants a piece of that action. They know that they will be the beneficiary of a good percentage of that tax money.
Like the yummy peanut butter smeared on the trigger of a rat trap, some proposed cannabis legislation might sound tasty, but will likely have undesirable results. By accepting a lame – and unnecessary – compromise, you will likely eliminate any possibility of really ending prohibition. The government will continue to disrespect you, and rightfully so. You willingly accept your role as chattel. You will never be free from oppression. Your tax will be unending, and will likely be much higher than you had ever intended. And, of course, if Big Government ever wants to take the cannabis away again, it will.
If you do not stand up for your rights, you will have no rights. It is better to vote down lame legislation like “legalize it and tax it.” C’mon, somebody is thinking this stuff up. Help them out. Point them in the right direction. Don’t accept “legalize it and tax it.” Tell them, no. Not legalize it and tax it. Just legalize it.
Legalize it and leave it alone.
-ED
When we get it legalized in the USVI, I plan on becoming the Commissioner of Hemp – The HEMPTRESS if you will! I will oversee and make sure that the quality is where it should be, hook up the University of the VI with Oaksterdam and kickout some cool ass educational classes in Paradise! Oh, yeah – can’t forget the St. Thomas NORML Hotel I will be overseeing. Actually found a perfect spot for it – 200 acres of land, including beachfront and 2 small spits (islands) included. Some rolling grounds that would make a great garden, a 1700′s Estate house that needs a bit of renovating, but the beach is wonderful and it is private!
Dayum Russ… How’d you figure me out!!! Muahahhaha.
Actually, I would like you to be able to retire from this… when it’s over… and “it ain’t over ’til the fat lady (can walk into a store in any state, county or municipality, show ID proving they are of legal age, purchase marijuana for recreational use, go home, roll a joint (fill a pipe, bong, vaporizer) fire it up, relax and then) sings.”
When marijuana is legalized, God willing, I will quit volunteering for NORML and start *making money* growing and selling the herb. I bet most NORML activists feel similarly.