Now that the No on I-502 PAC is officially taking contributions to help the Drug Czar defeat legalization, it’s time for me to review the latest half-truths, scaremongering, junk science, and outright lies being propagated by those who feel this legalization isn’t perfect enough.
One of our Drug Czar’s top national policies is encouraging states throughout the nation to adopt a per se DUID policy
MISDIRECTION. The TOP national policy of the Drug Czar is to “take such actions as necessary to oppose any attempt to legalize the use of” marijuana. I recently debated Kevin Sabet, who was a top advisor to Gil Kerlikowske (2009-2011) in the Drug Czar’s office. I asked him if they’d be happy to see I-502 pass, since it has a per se DUID in it. He laughed at me and said, “hardly”.
the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws has warned us about these types of limits (and are currently doing a nation-wide alert to stop the same limit in Colorado)
INACCURATE. Our alert in Colorado is not “nation-wide”; it is issued to our Colorado subscribers only. HALF-TRUTH. The DUID limit in Colorado is a stand-alone bill that doesn’t also include legalization. Per se DUID is bad enough to oppose on its own, but not so bad as to reject legalization. It’s like asking whether you favor eating dog shit. If someone just asked you to eat dog shit, you’d reject them. But if that someone was keeping you and your family and friends in a cage indefinitely and told you the only way you’d ever be released is to eat some dog shit, you’d eat some dog shit.
When voting to “legalize” cannabis, one doesn’t expect sharing (such as passing a joint in a circle) to continue as a class C felony, nor do they expect growing even a single plant to remain completely illegal.
IRRELEVANT. Passing a joint is illegal now, growing a plant is illegal now. Whether you think that is “legalization” is an argument of semantics. When I-502 passes, you could talk to a cop at your doorstep while smoking a joint and he could do nothing about it. Does that sound more “legalization” than what we have now?
I-502 mandates this [zero tolerance DUID] policy for those under 21, ignoring the fact that individuals can possess medical cannabis in our state under 21.
DIFFICULT. I don’t like it, either, but a legalization law that can pass is going to have a 21-year-old age limit. It is going to have to address fears of youth use and diversion and reckless driving. I don’t know how many Washington patients are of driving age but under 21, but I’m betting it is less than the 10,000 Washingtonians who’ll be busted for an ounce or less if I-502 fails.
Gives the Liquor Control Board the authority to control and regulate the amount of THC in the cannabis being sold in the proposed retail locations.
SO WHAT? If you’re a patient, you’re not shopping there anyway, you’re growing your own. If you’re not a patient and the store weed is too weak, you’ll get good weed from another source. No matter where you got it from, possession of an ounce of it will be legal.
the entire distribution system will be challenged and defeated in court as you can’t force a state to accept taxes from a federally illegal substance, as encoded into our Federal Controlled Substances Act).
IRRELEVANT. That is the exact same argument we can make for any medical marijuana state, like Colorado or New Mexico or Rhode Island, that is currently accepting taxes from a federally illegal substance. That didn’t seem to compel any “No on I-692″ PACs back in 1998, or any complaints from medical marijuana activists when they were trying to pass dispensary language that Gov. Gregoire vetoed, did it?
Forces all business applicants (whether for growing or selling) to submit their fingerprints to the FBI, more than likely leading to harsh federal penalties placed upon those who may feel they’re protected under state law.
IRRELEVANT. The “harsh federal penalties” would come down on a pot grower regardless of whether the FBI has his fingerprints. And there are such fingerprinting requirements in many medical marijuana states, but I never heard any of those state’s activists forming PACs to defeat those “not perfect” bills.
Claims to address the issue of hemp, but they do so by mandating arbitrary restrictions, forcing farmers to keep hemp at or under 0.3% or risk state prosecution
HALF-TRUTH. The writer fails to mention that 0.3% as a standard for industrial hemp is an international standard, brought about by Hemp Industries Association as part of their “test pledge” program to make sure people who eat hemp products don’t trip a pee test for pot metabolites. Every country on earth growing industrial hemp is abiding by that mandate.
NAW currently claims that Initiative 502 won’t fall victim to federal preemption
UNTRUE. NAW has always provided the info that any of this can be pre-empted by the feds, which, again, holds true for Washington’s current medical marijuana law. Is the message here “don’t try legalization if it will make the feds mad?”
NAW claims that I-502 treats cannabis like alcohol. This is obviously a falsity.
SPLITTING HAIRS. Of course it isn’t treated like alcohol for all the reasons you listed and more. But right now, marijuana is treated like heroin, LSD, and PCP. I think being allowed to have an ounce of marijuana without any punishment whatsoever beats the current misdemeanor with a mandatory 1-day jail sentence that can be up to 90 days and a $1,000 fine.
Initiative 502 makes Washington State one of the only states in the country that have a per se DUID policy for cannabis without an exception for patients. Nevada is one of these other states, and the year after they instituted a per se limit for cannabis, there was a 76% increase in cannabis DUIs.
FAULTY RESEARCH AND CONCLUSION*. Apparently you didn’t read far enough down into the comments. Delaware and Michigan are two medical marijuana states with no exemption for patients. The scary “76% increase in cannabis DUIs” is wrong on two fronts: 1) it was an increase in “DUIs” of all types, including alcohol and other drugs and 2) the “increase” was due to the fact that in 2001, 31 law enforcement agencies reported DUIs to the FBI; in 2002 it was just 3 agencies; in 2003, they submitted incomplete data; and in 2004, they went back to 31 agencies reporting. So the 76% increase from 2002 (pre-per-se-DUID) to 2004 (post-per-se-DUID) is like noting that 31 soccer teams scored 76% more total goals in 2004 than 3 soccer teams did in 2002.
NAW claims that they have the science behind the mandated per se DUID limit. This is clearly not true, as there is absolutely no scientific consensus to support any per se limit, better yet a specific 5 ng/ml limit.
HALF-TRUTH. It is true that there is no specific number of THC in blood that will guarantee someone is too impaired to drive. However, the available science does show that most cannabis consumers are impaired to a point of creating additional risk when they are above 5ng/mL. Since newly-legalized marijuana is going to mean a bunch of new, inexperienced pot smokers, that would be a logical limit to apply to them. It is, as claimed, not accurate for experienced, heavy tokers… but the No on I-502 faction keeps claiming that these pot smokers wouldn’t be impaired at all, so why all the worry about getting pulled over?
(Ah, yes, the “broken tail light” or “failure to signal” or “expired tags” or any other simple mechanical failure that tokers would be wise to check before driving anyway. Which then leads to the cop suspecting the driver is impaired. Which then leads to a sobriety test. Which, if failed by this person who is supposedly unimpaired enough to drive, leads to a blood draw. Which then comes up >5ng/mL, which leads to a DUID conviction. But the problem with that scenario is that it is the exact same scenario the experienced, heavy toker is risking now. I have yet to hear of – and I have asked repeatedly – of a single pot smoker who’s ever beat a 5ng/mL blood test and failed sobriety test in court.)
NAW claims that we can easily change these problems later, when clearly this is disingenuous, or at the best naive. As for the per se limit, “drugged” driving laws are essentially never decreased, and altering it would be a political impossibility, at least for the near future
SPECULATION AND INACCURATE. Drugged driving laws have been decreased in those cases where states like Arizona and Rhode Island instituted exceptions to per se DUID for cannabis patients, and where the Georgia and Michigan courts have ruled against the introduction of metabolites in DUID trials. Alcohol DUID, it is true, has decreased from .10 to .08 and there are calls for even lower limits – but this is irrelevant as there is solid science linking blood-alcohol levels to accident risk and impairment.
Whether anything can be “fixed” is entirely speculative, but I’m willing to bet it is easier for citizens with a right to possess and use an ounce of legal cannabis to lobby for positive changes than it is for criminals to make changes.
The truth is, whether you’re in support of it or not, it’s hard to deny that Initiative 502 is riddled with faults, inconsistencies and dangerous policies. Washington State is one of the strongest supporters of legalized cannabis. We can do better. We encourage you to vote NO on Initiative 502, or, at the very least, beware of what you’re getting; which is not what it’s being presented as.
DIVERSION. All legalization initiatives and bills are riddled with faults, inconsistencies, and dangerous policies. I-692 legalized a “60 day supply” of medical marijuana, yet there was no No on I-692 PAC warning people how dangerous that would be, “more than likely leading to harsh federal penalties placed upon those who may feel they’re protected under state law” when the “60 day supply” that was OK in Seattle turned out to be criminal possession in Yakima. I never saw a No on I-692 PAC that warned medical marijuana would “lead to any meaningful change to our cannabis policies getting pushed off for years, as the citizens of our state will feel like they’ve already” taken care of the sick and disabled. I never heard No on I-692 PAC warn that allowing the state to increase limits to 24 ounces and 15 plants would “set a negative example that could turn people away from [medical marijuana] throughout the state and country”, when abuse of these high limits on the West Coast has done just that by killing home grow in the East Coast medical marijuana states. I never heard No on I-692 PAC refer to the absence of protection for PTSD, anxiety, and depression as “not the route we should be taking with [medical marijuana]” because of the terrible example it would set.
Yeah, it seems that when it comes to medical marijuana, any bill is a good bill, regardless of faults, but when it comes to legalizing for the rest of us healthy tokers, either “a 5′x5′ garden is too small” (CA: Prop 19 2010) or “it doesn’t fully protect medical” (OR: OCTA 2008) or “it’s not true legalization” (CO: A64 2012) or “growing and sharing are still illegal” (WA: I-502 2012) or some other crazed speculation of federal/corporate take-overs, Machiavellian asshole cops, incredibly unlucky perfectly-unimpaired drivers who somehow fail sobriety tests, or federal officials who come down hard on legalization as they haven’t done on medical.
* This is what you get when you rely on bloggers paid by alleged sex trafficking enablers for your marijuana research…
Contact your elected representatives and urge them to 'Stop Arresting Marijuana Smokers'. 
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I think it is hilarious that people think that letting the government take over ANYTHING will end up being a good thing. Hasn’t anyone learned anything after the banking scandals, the war profiteering etc. etc. that has happened the past 20 years and actually since the beginning of this country? Government control always ends up the same; corruption,huge profits for a few people, while the general public gets played for the suckers they are.
I also think it is funny that people think that by passing this law that it will be a good FIRST STEP. Really? Once the government and their big money interests get a hold of something the general public will get SCREWED! Wake up people. It has always been that way in this land of freedom (what a joke) and it always will be the case. Study your history people and don’t let them play you for suckers on this one.
There is only ONE LEGALIZATION that will work for the people and that entails absolutely no government involvement. Once you let these capitalist pigs gain control you will get screwed. Don’t blame me people, it’s the way our government works. If you don’t believe that is the truth then you have been conditioned exactly the way our government wanted you to be conditioned. Brave New World.
Washington NORML is stronger in this state than it ever has been, thanks in large part to the fact that the silent majority of closeted marijuana smokers who are coming out in support or I-502. NORML has been around before 502 and will be here long after.
One might be a redneck if one never gets out of Seattle, or WA for that matter. See, I-502 challenges prohibition on a Federal level. Take a drive through Idaho or Texas with your stash while you smell like pot and think about “fear”.
The DUI paranoia is just that, paranoia. If police in Seattle wanted to enforce “Orwellian” per se DUI, they would just pull over everyone coming out of a Mariners game, netting thousands of DUI in one night, in one city block – but that doesn’t happen. In fact, emphasis patrols over the 4th of July this year netted less DUI’s than last year, a little less than 170 statewide.
Fear is fear, but it doesn’t necessarilly lead to a logical argument.
I am not afraid.
Kevin Oliver
Washington NORML
Executive Director
I-502 does not remove cannabis from the state Uniform Controlled Substances Act. RCW 69.50 is quite clear: cannabis is a Schedule I drug and is illegal.
Now, here’s a link Alison wrote on how to legalize in Washington state: http://questionland.com/questions/20027-federal-illegal-state-legal
Now consider this: Peter Lewis, the major contributor for I-502, is the owner of Progressive Insurance, which happens to be the exclusive provider for high-risk auto insurance for the state.
Now who stands to make a bundle when I-502 fails due to conflicting laws?
I-502 even contains a “federal cooperation” clause. Guess who gets screwed?
Please read I-502. It’s NOT what they say, it’s NOT what you think.
I am a terminal patient and a disabled nurse. I do not own a business nor do I sell anything (For some reason the opposition requires this, as they always claim us patients as dispensary owners, but I know a LOT of patients who are against this!)
NORML used to be a great organization. What happened? This type of smear campaign and big lie strategy would make Goebbells blush. NORML has lost any credibility they might have had with their overblown and abusive pro 502 reich-party line. Obviously, NORML has become a tool for the very shadowy interests it was originally formed to oppose. After the facts about I-502 become widely known and the Initiative goes down in a puff of smoke, NORML will have alienated an entire generation of pot smokers in Washington State.
we need to make legal history, put pressure on the feds, cus we all know they will go nuts on washington if it passes here.
what i dont hear, and apparently none of u considered it, but this chance does possibly not come around every cycle, you r taking it for granted. look no further than california to see what i mean. once legalized regardless of its imprefections, I 502 will change the game with the fed, and expose their game plan. then we can, in other states, learn the defense we need to play. personally, i think they will throw the book at us, via legislation and the courts, and dont forget threats, this is a war, and you have to win the battles first. pot will be fully legal one day, i have no doubt.
one more thing, the supreme court is going to retire 2 justices this cycle. we need democrats in the court to swing the balance our way. i would contend that that is the most important consideration in your vote. so, vote Obama ( an no, i dont like him), or the supreme court is screwed off, what a nightmare.
just for good measure, romney laughs at pot smokers, medical or not. i guarantee, if president, he will eliminate every single dispensary in the usa, and keep it that way. why? cus he is mormon. and i dont know any mormons, i am sure some are real nice people. save our supreme court.. peace
He is heading for a brokered convention if he doesn’t get the nomination. His delegate count is huge now, and Romney can’t get the 1145 delegates needed for getting the nomination outright. Ron Paul is the favorite of the troops (even above and beyond the current president), and Ron Paul has won at least 7 states and he is bound to win California and others, as he clearly won the straw polls for California and other states.
Can’t win, or you don’t want him to? This 12 term congressman has a better chance than you think.
ChrisfromTN, Ron Paul can do a lot of things that Barack Obama promised to do.
1. He can fund or defund certain agencies. He can direct the Department of Justice.
2. He can make or delete executive orders
3. He can stand in front of the camera as leader of the free nation and disavow the drug war as he has done in his 12 terms as a congressman.
As for the “imperfect bill”. I just recorded a video about it.
This is the gist of my video:
I think it’s pretty absolute that legalization is going to happen. Its now just a matter of figuring out how that is going to happen.
The point is that more people are in favor of legalization than not.
So why settle? Should we pretend that this is 20 years ago, when support wasn’t as high for legalization, and just settle for any bullshit that comes around, for example something like I-502 in Washington, or should we hold out a little bit longer for the BEST possible road to legalization?
Im not saying that baby steps aren’t necessary. But selling-out to politicians and prohibitionists isnt the wise route in my consideration. If we are going to consider voting for “Legalization” it should reflect some kind of real freedom, not just table scraps of what was or could be REAL change.
Timothy Leary is great history lesson of what legalization CAN be, and no it doesn’t take all kinds of bullshit compromises and bureaucracy.
No, I just said it was irrelevant because that is what the law is now and I-502 doesn’t change it. It would be like opposing the 21st Amendment because it didn’t make home whiskey stills legal.
I support any and all legalization proposals that make the ballot. By Paul’s own words above, he’s going to be able to turn in 150,000 signatures by July 6th, so it would appear he’s already gotten all the help he needs, right? When OCTA has made the ballot, I’ll be happy to expend more energy on it.
Sorry, I just read something Paul wrote on our activists’ list here in Oregon where he claimed that OCTA 2012 is the first “serious” time he’s run this legalization initiative, which is news to all of us who dedicated our time and talents and donated our money to previous incarnations that apparently weren’t “serious”. If he needs, say, $200,000 to help push signatures over the edge, maybe he can get Toots & The Maytals and Jon Trudell to donate back some of their concert payments.
Perhaps that wasn’t the right metaphor to use to explain opposing per se DUID in Colorado while supporting legalization with per se DUID in Washington. How about this one?
Suppose I handed you this knife and asked you to cut off your arm. You’d never even consider it. But suppose, like the guy in 127 Hours, you’re caught in the wilderness alone with a boulder pinning your arm. After a few days of no food or water, you’d cut off your arm or you’d die.
That’s how most of us see prohibition. It’s not just some toker getting busted with a bag and doing a mandatory 24 hours in a Washington jail over “one paltry ounce”. It is an abuse of human rights that kills 50,000 in Mexico, deprives the planet of a superior food, fiber, and energy source, and denies the safest therapeutically active substance known to man to the sick and dying not fortunate enough to live in one of seventeen states or fortunate enough to qualify in those seventeen states. And it is an abomination that we can’t even begin to address until at least one US Western State, in however limited a way, declares that the adult personal use of marijuana requires no approval from any authority.
The problem is that patients don’t see the boulder. With protection from prosecution for up to 24 ounces and 15 plants, with fine farmer’s markets with affordably-priced marijuana, and especially in the King County area where the city attorney won’t even accept minor marijuana possession cases, some patients feel like they are being asked to cut off their arm for no good reason. Why all the fuss over “one paltry ounce” when marijuana’s virtually legal anyway?
Oh, occasionally the patients will sense there is something on their arm. Like when Tim Garon, a medical marijuana patient, is kicked off the organ transplant list and dies because he’s a medical marijuana patient. Or when patients try to get a job and find that “Drug Free Workplace” sign indicating they’ll be pee tested. Or when a vindictive ex- uses their patient status to affect child custody. Or when the patient tries to get a concealed handgun permit. Or when the patient is kicked out of assisted housing. But for most patients, that’s somebody else’s arm being pinned by the prohibition boulder.
Yes, a DUID charge, especially when you weren’t impaired, sucks. But that is a risk every regular pot smoker, patient or pothead, takes right now anyway! Of all the misdirections and half-truths surrounding I-502, this implication that all driving by all patients is legal now is the most egregious. Every opponent of I-502 who barks about how cops are going to profile and blood test like mad because they just hate dopers ignores the point that DUID is a crime now! If a cop pulls you over, suspecting impairment, gives you a sobriety test you fail, and arrests you and takes your blood and it’s over 5ng/mL – guess what? You’re most likely to be convicted of a DUID!
So, if you want to oppose I-502 on the basis of patients never being below 5ng but always being sober enough for driving, you should be counseling patients now to never drive unless they have $15,000 on hand or an attorney on retainer for their DUID trial.
What’s your point? To diminish how many people would be busted if I-502 fails? Washington’s current law treats <40g as a misdemeanor. Washington reports marijuana arrests to the FBI Uniform Crime Report. I’m sure the data are out there; I haven’t the time to look it up right now. I trust the 10,000 number because actual possession arrest numbers are much higher than that (when I had looked them up previously) and I suspect the higher numbers would include some >28g possession cases that I-502 wouldn’t make legal.
Let’s agree that it is a non-zero number. I’ll guarantee you it is a number larger than the number of people in Washington State who:
1) Smoke pot all day
2) But have high enough tolerance to drive without impairment
3) Yet somehow attract the attention of a police officer even though driving in a perfectly unimpaired manner
4) And during a traffic stop the officer suspects marijuana impairment
5) And subjects the perfectly unimpaired all-day pot smoker to a field sobriety test they fail
6) Which leads to an arrest and taking that perfectly unimpaired all-day pot smoker to a clinic or hospital for a blood draw
7) Which even after the time it took to get there still comes out at >5ng/mL
8) Which is then admitted into evidence after a defense attorney fails to squash it for improper procedural actions by the police officer (e.g., cop had no reason to believe person was impaired, field sobriety test called into doubt, etc.)
9) And then that perfectly unimpaired all-day pot smoker is acquitted on DUID charges.
In fact, I’ll find you 1,000 people who did at least a day in jail for under an ounce of pot just last year for every one of those people you can find over the entire fourteen year span of medical marijuana in Washington.
[...] Once more into the breach: The lies of the No on I-502 campaign Get the Word Out!PrintEmailMoreShare on TumblrDigg Pin ItLike this:LikeOne blogger likes this post. This entry was posted in Body Politic, My Opinions and tagged cannabis, Driving under the influence, DUID, I-502, Marijuana Prohibition, No on I-502, THC, war on drugs, Washington, Washington Initiative 502 (2011). Bookmark the permalink. ← Jose Guerena [...]
The following is an excerptI was perusing No on I-502’s webpage “Important Resources” when I noticed that while some of what is stated is true other portions of the information provided on this page are in stark contrast to the actual language put forth by I-502 which places these sections of the “Important Resources” page into direct conflict with the actual language, or facts, of I-502 making these lines of text untrue, or false, if you prefer, to say the least.
The easiest way in which to address the issue at hand is to first look at the pertinent content of the page and then sequentially evaluating the assertions put forth on the page to see what facts exist to establish the truths and falsehoods within in their statements to then determine whether it was an honest mistake or a blatant lie.
To do this I have taken the liberty of copying and then pasting the text that is most relevant to the question at hand, ‘if this was a mistake or a lie’, while preserving the integrity of the content as best I can with the editing features provided by WordPress.com to their bloggers.
Now, before moving on to the question of this day I want you to keep in mind the following as we evaluate No on I-502’s propositions:
If the goal is to deceive to achieve one’s own end, the person(s) who set this goal must use honesty in the majority of their words and actions insofar as honesty is a tool that develops the trust necessary to effectively use dishonesty as a means to achieve the goal of deception to achieve one’s own end.
http://trixterphillips.wordpress.com/2012/05/13/is-no-on-i-502s-important-resources-webpage-an-honest-mistake-or-an-blatant-lie/
I agree… Ron Paul has zero chance of becoming president in 2012. Sorry, I like the guy, but he has got nothing. He is not going to make it. No chance.
Check out this AWESOME news from yesterday and the Oregon Cannabis Tax Act campaign:
(Quoted): Today, the Oregon Cannabis Tax Act 2012 initiative petition turned in 27,401 signatures from the month of April, which is more than enough to exceed the minimum number of signatures for a statutory ballot measure by over 2,000 signatures. According to an official at the Oregon Secretary of State Elections Division today, OCTA2012 is the third initiative to meet the early turn-in requirement by exceeding the minimum number of signatures required for qualification for ballot status.
http://oregonvotes.org/doc/2012_submission_log.pdf
We are continuing our petition drive. We estimate that, on Monday, May 14th, another 10,000 signatures to be turned in to our office by petitioners that are gathered this week, and at least 10,000 more in each subsequent week. OCTA2012′s signature drive momentum is building. We will turn in more than 150,000 signatures by July 6th to exceed the 87,213 valid registered Oregon voters’ signatures needed and ensure qualification for the Oregon ballot in November 2012.
Referenced link: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=308698325870978&id=145759328775508
Check it! Oregon is also going to vote on legalization in November! For sure!
(By the way, the legal language of the Oregon Cannabis Tax Act is the best in the entire nation of ANY legalization proposal. The best. Period.)
CHECK IT OUT!
Russ, I know you have had problems with Paul in the past, but PLEASE REPORT THIS NEWS, and get the word about the Oregon Cannabis Tax Act out there! Paul and all of us here in Oregon need your and NORML help to spread the word! Please! Money bomb us or something… Anything!
I started smoking pot in 1966. It has been my dream to see marijuana legalization. I’ve always been somewhat against the legalization for the medication route, because I don’t believe it will lead to real legalization. Which to me is the real objective.
If you read Obama’s PR response to the legalization petitions that are put up on the whitehouse.gov website; the responses seem to indicate that no one actually took note of any statement on the petitions, because they are looking to the pharmaceutical companies to refine the drugs. As well as quoting a lot of ridiculously bad science statements about why marijuana shouldn’t be legalized. Nearly as silly as “Reefer Madness”. Including the statement that marijuana is addictive like tobacco. So, my fears seem to be well founded. Big Pharma wants marijuana legalized ONLY if they control it, as they apparently control factions in our government. They will continue to pretend that it shouldn’t be legalized for the general public the way alcohol and tobacco is. And, if they get a major foothold (more than they have now), there is no doubt that they will put millions, perhaps billions, into lobbying and creating a Ministry of Truth about marijuana.
It also seems silly there’s so much focus on the DUID issues of I-502, as it is more important to stop making criminals of ordinary people consuming small amounts for recreational and/or medical use. You can argue that the MMJ card gives you the right to have marijuana, but I’ve often read that police still arrest people with cards. This will stop with legalization for everyone. And, there is actually a point where you have consumed too much marijuana to drive. Which doesn’t seem to have entered much into the arguments I’ve seen.
If marijuana is legalized, police will stop getting huge subsidies for making marijuana arrests. And, if that would happen, police focus on marijuana would diminish.
If we keep waiting for the “perfect” bill, as we have for the last 40 years or so, it will never happen. I know the biggest fear is that with all government issues is that once past it will take forever to get rid of. And, yes, Washington might get saddled with a poor legalization bill, that needs serious fixing up. But, the country needs a few states to start legalizing marijuana and working to get complete federal legalization. The more we produce a rallying point, the more successful the movement will become. Then, we should be able to say to our legislators “Look, state X has passed a much more logical and efficient law regarding marijuana, we need to change our law again.“
We need to pass a legalization law NOW, not wait another 40 years.
“IRRELEVANT.”
You just defended persecuting people for passing a joint since their victimization is “irrelevant”. That’s cold.
” Since newly-legalized marijuana is going to mean a bunch of new, inexperienced pot smokers, that would be a logical limit to apply to them.”
No, it wouldn’t. Novices would likely be impaired at much lower levels.
This is an awful piece of legislation. But hey, I’m not from WA, never been, won’t be visiting, and if y’all want to entrap yourselves while advancing MY liberty – well, I can’t and won’t stop you and while I think you are a fool for supporting this compromise with the devil, I’ll enjoy the benefits.
I saw a picture on facebook. Made me laugh for 20 minutes.
“I-502, it’s like eating dog shit”
Troy,
I understand the concern you have for the current I 502 initiative.. I like Sensible Washington’s wording much better when they left out DUI limits. However, this bill will make it legal for all Washington residents to use up to an ounce of marijuana. This is Legalization we are voting for on November! Imagine what would happen if Washington and Colorado knocked over the first two Domino’s of state legalization of marijuana. I would vote yes on any initiative that pushed the marijuana debate forward. Thank you Troy for your response.. I think it comes down to how both sides predict the future..lol I just can’t vote no on this.. I’m worried if we don’t focus on legalization and continue to focus on Medicalization of Marijuana, then we will see a Nation of Sativix users and not Organic Marijuana patients.. Thats my feeble attempt at predicting the future..!
James,
I agree with your general premise on rights being all-inclusive to consume cannabis for all responsible adults. The idea of condemning people for a victimless-crime should be considered an oxymoron.
I am in my third year of being an activist with Sensible Washington. In the beginning, like you, I considered medical marijuana laws to be discriminatory. What changed my perception over the course of the last three years, was actually coming face-to-face with many patients, or people who wished their loved ones could have overcome the stigma of marijuana to improve their quality of life in their dying days.
I have literally discussed this issue with thousands of people — it has changed my life, my perspective, and my motives in ending prohibition. I remain committed to ending prohibition on cannabis for everyone. That said, I also realize that patients’ rights are also worth protecting.
We didn’t create the laws that subject people to unjustified penalties now. I have dedicated all of my free-time to changing those laws (free time that I can’t afford) — anyone that knows how committed I am to the cause could never say otherwise.
Both sides of the I-502 divide have spun this debate in various directions. I have vowed to keep the conversation honest, and try my best to do so. It is a long way to November, but it will be here before we know it. We owe it to ourselves to keep the discussion civil.
If I-502 passes, there will be much work remaining to ensure sound policy is created. If it fails, then we will have much work to do, to come together, analyze mistakes, then create something better.
I refuse to be condemned for offering nothing more than a critical analysis of I-502. In a functioning democracy, such analysis should be welcome. The voters have a right to know what this initiative offers. As cannabis activists, we all deserve to be heard.
– Thanks!
Russ, re: “I’m betting it is less than the 10,000 Washingtonians who’ll be busted for an ounce or less if I-502 fails”…
Do you have stats that categorize arrests in Washington State based on amount?
In other words, where does the number 10,000 come from?
How many of those are simple possession for under an ounce?
How many of those are grows?
How many of those are 40 grams or more?
How many of those charges originated as a result from a traffic stop?
Russ,
Take a step further. I-502 does not create a zero tolerance DUI for those under 21. Please read section 34 of the initiative and how it amends RCW 46.61.305. Taking into consideration the amount of products out there containing alcohol that children can buy now, I 502 doesn’t give young people any more leeway to use marijuana then what currently exists for alcohol. Furthermore, it does not appear that I 502 has a section saying that our children will be charged for being in public exhibiting the effects of marijuana. That is not true for alcohol.
If you really want to stop nit picking you could vote yes to I 502.. :)
Either way… Thanks for sharing your thoughts I learn the most from discussing the issues!
I live in Shoreline, Washington… Just north of Seattle. There are two dispensaries in my neighborhood that I visited and both had NO to I 502 signs inside their establishments. I went into each one and asked to speak to the owner.. They are small outfits so I happen to get the owner of both dispensaries. I told the first owner that I don’t have a medical marijuana card. I don’t plan on buying marijuana here but I had a question. “Do you think I should go to jail and have an arrest record for using marijuana?” She said no! I didn’t say goodbye I just left. I then went to the other dispensary. I asked the same question “Do you think I should go to jail and have an arrest record for using marijuana?” He said no! I just nodded my head and left. I didn’t care to hear their reason for supporting the NO to I 502! That argument is brilliantly written in “Toke (TOOL) of the Town.
I’m confused with the backlash to legalization from our own ranks! I smoke because I like to get high! I’m a second class citizen obviously to those who see themselves as medical marijuana patients! I like to say to those who are thinking about voting NO on I 502.. I am an American Citizen and I have a right as a free citizen to consume a plant that causes no harm to myself or others. We should not create different classes of marijuana consumers! There is no difference between a man wanting to take a walk and get high or a man wanting to smoke or ingest marijuana to relieve pain. Both are American Citizens! I ask everyone to support I 502 because I’m a good man and I shouldn’t have to go to jail and have an arrest record for something I enjoy to do that does no harm to any of my fellow Washington State residence.
Xcann:
Even if Dr. Paul was elected, and he really did all the things he says he would do, you would still have to get some sort of State legislation passed. Don’t get me wrong. I like Paul, but he is still very unlikely to get the Republican nomination. Even if he gets enough delegates to affect the party platform, he’ll likely focus on the Fed and not cannabis.
You remind me of me a few years ago right before Russ and Marc had it out on this very forum… there’s no reason a person can’t support his favorite candidate and support an imperfect bill (we are NEVER all going to agree on a “perfect” bill) that accomplishes at least some of our stated goals.
Yours in Liberty,
ChrisfromTN
PS.
If Paul doesn’t end up with the Republican nod, check out Gary Johnson… the Libertarians already picked him as their candidate.
Well, I was shocked that Marc Emery came out in support of this. Very surprised.
But I have a lot of respect for Marc Emery. I disagree with him on this point. But I still respect him and I respect you. In that respect, I don’t call petty names. I try to keep the conversation a bit more professional. When we are dealing constant insults to one another, the rest of society look at us as kinda nutty and very divided.
I don’t support I-502. I am focusing on something more worthy of so much time though.
Want real change? Support Ron Paul. Enough nit picking people, lets just unite and get this drug war ended once and for all! The support that Marc and Jodie give to Ron Paul also inspires me. 2012 baby its on!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqni2v_the-truth-prevails-about-ron-paul-delegates_news
Very well written, sir. We need to all step back and see the big picture here. We’re not going to stop fighting, no home-grow and DUID is gonna be the first target, but this has to be the next step we take.
The boat is sinking and people are bitching about which way they prefer to get to shore.
I do not compare No on I-502 people to the Drug Czar.
I point out they are voting on the same side as the Drug Czar.
Just sticking with the facts.
I don’t know why it’s necessary to deal insults, and compare no on I-502 people to the drug czar. Is there a particular need to divide rather than unite the community? Insults don’t help. I say stick with the facts.
And as far as prohibitionists behind one side or the other. I think you’ll find a lot more prohibitionists on the pro-I-502 side, than who are opposed. Lawyers, prosecutors, law enforcement people, etc. Basically the people who benefit most from prohibition (lawyers) are backing this change in law, and the main sponsors show this to be true.
I think the law should be voted in on merits not on whos who though.
Is this really legalization I ask myself, or a bad compromise that could last a very long time?
I know NORML calls it legalization. I STILL disagree.