Wednesday, November 4th, 2009 at 2:29 pm | By: Radical Russ
(Change.org Criminal Justice) Advocates for marijuana reform frequently argue that the drug should be legalized because it’s safe. This is generally true, and I support legalization for this and many other reasons. But when it comes to driving and safety, legalization advocates often go a step too far — claiming that driving under the influence of marijuana is not dangerous and that marijuana causes zero deaths each year. These misleading arguments are harming the reform movement.
In the next couple of paragraphs the author calls out the authors of “Marijuana is Safer”, so I’ll leave that to Paul Armentano to cover. I’ve never claimed that driving under the influence of marijuana is not dangerous, though I have pointed out how it is safer than driving under the influence of alcohol or driving while text-messaging.
I also am increasingly perturbed by a society that thinks nothing of parking lots at bars and .08 BAC laws having zero tolerance for the notion of cannabis-using drivers. The fact that we have a per se standard of .08 BAC for alcohol-using drivers means that at below .08 BAC, the state has to prove you were actually too impaired to drive, not simply that you’d been drinking. We tolerate the idea that a big guy like me (6′0″ 260lbs.) might be able to drink one beer and be OK to drive, but the notion of driving after one puff off a joint is unthinkable? We tolerate people driving their cars to bars for the express purpose of becoming impaired knowing full well that not 100% of them have designated drivers, but were supposed to worry that legalizing pot will lead to blood on the highways?
So, I want to say to the commenters who frequently write here and elsewhere that driving under the influence of marijuana is not risky: you’re wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you’re spreading a dangerous myth that could cause deadly accidents and will hurt the chances for marijuana reform in the United States. To those who cite that stat that alcohol causes 75,000 deaths each year in the U.S. and marijuana causes zero: you’re wrong, too. Marijuana causes far, far fewer deaths than alcohol (maybe 0.1%) , but the number is not zero. Fatal accidents like this one and this one confirm that.
It’s always funny to me how one or two stories of people being helped by medical marijuana are just anecdotes that don’t scientifically prove anything, but one or two stories of a person pleading guilty to a fatal marijuana DUI wreck proves how dangerous marijuana and driving are.
The author, I believe, is purposefully excluding the context under which most of us say “marijuana never killed anyone”. I am always referring to marijuana being non-toxic and incapable of overdose. I try to be careful and only cite the 35,000 alcohol deaths from chronic conditions like the 18,000 whose livers fail or the 4,500 who suffer strokes and heart attacks or the 2,200 who get cancer. I try not to include the 40,000 whose alcohol use causes acute conditions like the 14,000 who wreck their car, boat, or plane or the 19,000 who fall, commit suicide, or are murdered, or the 2,200 who freeze, burn, or drown.
If we want to include all of the ways in which marijuana might lead to death of its users, then, indeed, it is false to say nobody ever died from marijuana. First we’d have to add in all the people who’ve been shot by police, murdered by dealers, or died choking on their own vomit due to lack of medical marijuana in a prison cell. We’d have to include people like the two drivers in the examples above, plus all the people who fell off a cliff because they tripped while stoned and the people who die of a heart attack from the obesity they got from the munchies. As you admit, that number is still probably 0.1% the deaths compared to alcohol under all conditions, which is why we are also careful to say marijuana is not harmless, but it is far less harmful than alcohol and tobacco. (Even that percentage is high, I think, as that would be 75 pot-related deaths per year.)
To show that we’re serious about responsible reform, marijuana reformers need to take a stand against driving under the influence of pot. Each of us can do our part.
Fine, I’ll take that stand: if your consumption of marijuana has led you to be as impaired as someone with a blood-alcohol content of 0.08 or above, do not drive a car. If you’re at a public event, wait to drive for as long as they force the beer drinkers to wait before you get behind the wheel.
Friday, September 4th, 2009 at 3:36 pm | By: Radical Russ
SAN DIEGO, Sept. 3 /PRNewswire/ — San Diego DUI lawyer Lawrence Taylor claims that California DUI laws should not be applied to marijuana usage. Unlike alcohol and many drugs, he says, marijuana probably does not impair driving.
On the one hand, the California Department of Justice has found that marijuana impairs psychomotor abilities that are functionally related to driving, particularly at high-dose levels or among inexperienced users. (”Marijuana and Alcohol: A Driver Performance Study,” California Office of Traffic Safety Project No. 087902)
However, the San Diego DUI defense attorney points out, two federal studies contradict this.
In one, the U.S. Department of Transportation conducted DUI research with a fully interactive simulator on the effects of alcohol and marijuana, alone and in combination, on driver-controlled behavior and performance. Although alcohol was found consistently and significantly to cause impairment, marijuana had only an occasional effect.
Accidents and speeding tickets reliably increased with alcohol, but no marijuana or combined alcohol-marijuana influence was noted. (”The Effects of Alcohol on Driver-Controlled Behavior in a Driving Simulator, Phase I”(DOT-HS-806-414).)
Taylor, who heads a large firm of DUI attorneys with offices in Los Angeles, San Diego, Orange County, Riverside and San Francisco, points to another more recent report. Entitled “Marijuana and Actual Performance” (DOT-HS-808-078), it also found that “THC is not a profoundly impairing drug….It apparently affects controlled information processing in a variety of laboratory tests, but not to the extent which is beyond the individual’s ability to control when he is motivated and permitted to do so in driving.”
The researchers found that it “appears not possible to conclude anything about a driver’s impairment on the basis of his/her plasma concentrations of THC and THC-COOH determined in a single sample.”
Sounds like a “whoo-hoo!” moment, huh? Well, not so fast. NORML’s Principles of Responsible Use states “The responsible cannabis consumer does not operate a motor vehicle or other dangerous machinery while impaired by cannabis.”
The $64,000 question*, then, is “what defines impaired?” I can tell you that one puff off a vape bag full of Oregon’s finest will severely impair your average Kansas ditchweed smoker, while that same puff for a 5g/day Oregon patient won’t even break his concentration from completing the New York Times crossword.
The same phenomenon exists for alcohol; the alcoholic can seem perfectly capable with as many drinks under his belt as would knock out your average sorority sister. But as a society, we decided that there should be an absolute measurable physical limit – .08 blood alcohol content – that defines impairment per se, that is, if you’re over .08 you’re too impaired even if you’re not really too impaired.
As always when there is a story about cannabis drug testing and driving, I called on NORML’s Deputy Director, Paul Armentano. Here’s what he had to say:
Thursday, April 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm | By: Radical Russ
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Young men who are impulsive thrill-seekers are more likely to admit to driving while high on marijuana, Canadian researchers report.
Men who drove under the influence of cannabis were also more likely to report certain risky driving behaviors, and tend to get in more accidents, Drs. Isabelle Richer and Jacques Bergeron of the University of Montreal say.
After alcohol, cannabis is the mind-altering substance most often found in the urine or blood of drivers after a crash, the researchers note in the journal Accident Analysis and Prevention. Studies have shown that people’s driving skills are impaired within the first hour after smoking pot, they add. And it’s also possible, according to Richer and Bergeron, that people who get behind the wheel after smoking marijuana are also by nature more likely to be dangerous drivers.
Study participants with high scores on personality tests measuring sensation seeking and impulsivity were more likely to say they had driven under the influence of cannabis in the past year. The pot-smoking drivers were also more likely to report having engaged in risky driving, meaning driving in a careless way that could hurt others but isn’t intended to do so; and negative emotional driving, for example, getting angry with other motorists. These men were also more likely to exhibit these behaviors in the simulation tests. There was a slight increased likelihood that the pot smokers would get in crashes, and they were also more likely to admit to drinking and driving.
OK, so what you’re telling me is that young men who are “impulsive sensation seekers” are likely to:
Smoke pot,
Drive risky,
Get road rage.
Color me surprised. Impulsive young men do stupid things. At sixteen, I once stole my dad’s pickup and gas credit card to hook up with a girl who lived in Tri-Cities, Washington whom I’d met just that week in Boise, Idaho, all on impulse, not thinking that the credit card receipts would totally ruin my alibi lie. I also drove fairly recklessly, almost wrecking the truck as I went off the road and spun out in the median of the freeway, while I was completely sober (I hadn’t touched alcohol or cannabis at that point.) Go figure. Teenage hormones made me a worse driving risk than cannabis ever has.
The fly in the ointment in this news report for me is “cannabis is the mind-altering substance most often found in the urine or blood of drivers after a crash”. No kidding – considering that cannabis is the third most used substance after alcohol and tobacco, it wouldn’t be surprising at all to find cannabis in people’s blood or urine. With the urine test, the cannabis can turn up even weeks after smoking; with the blood, days.
What none of this proves is that they are “driving while high on marijuana”. In most of America, we have a .08 blood alcohol standard – above that, you are, per se, impaired. What that implies, then, is that below .08, it is possible you are not too impaired to drive.
Similarly, we have a whole host of pharmaceuticals whose ads say, “Until you know how you may react to Fuqitol, don’t drive or operate heavy machinery,” which suggests to me that once you do know how you may react, it is possible you are not too impaired to drive.
Yet with cannabis, these studies will point to drivers who’ve been in a crash who’ve had inactive, non-impairing marijuana metabolites in their urine and proclaim, aha!, “Young men who are impulsive thrill-seekers are more likely to admit to driving while high on marijuana!”
At NORML, we are clear – you should never smoke and drive. (Mostly for self-preservation – the vast majority of possession pot busts are made during traffic encounters with police.) Smoking and driving is not “responsible use”. However, these reports that imply a huge social risk from cannabis-impaired drivers are way overblown. I’ve said it before – when someone can show me the bar that has only taxicabs in its parking lot, you can talk to me about the social danger of stoned drivers.
Wednesday, March 4th, 2009 at 8:28 am | By: Radical Russ
Oakland, CA — The California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) issued a new policy yesterday with regard to how it treats qualified medical marijuana patients. The DMV Driver Safety Procedure Manual was revised to include reference to medical marijuana, stating that “use of medicinal marijuana approved by a physician should be handled in the same manner as any other prescription medication which may affect safe driving.” The manual states that the existence of medical marijuana use “does not, in itself, constitute grounds for a license withdrawal action.”
The change in DMV policy was the result of a lawsuit filed on November 19, 2008 by medical marijuana advocacy group Americans for Safe Access (ASA) on behalf of Rose Johnson, a 53-year-old patient from Atwater, whose driving license was revoked because of her status as a patient. Despite Ms. Johnson’s clean driving record, not having caused an accident in 37 years of driving, the DMV revoked her license on July 26, 2008. According to the DMV, Ms. Johnson’s license was revoked “because of…[an] addiction to, or habitual use of, [a] drug,” thereby rendering her unable to safely operate a motor vehicle, even though no evidence existed to substantiate this claim. In January, as a result of the lawsuit and a positive driving test by Ms. Johnson, the DMV reinstated her license and issued the new policy before the case had a chance to be heard in Superior Court.
Advocates assert that the DMV policy of suspending and revoking the licenses of medical marijuana patients was widespread, occurring in at at least 8 California counties, including Alameda, Butte, Contra Costa, Glenn, Merced, Placer, Sacramento, and Sonoma. License revocations by the DMV, which have been based on a person’s status as a medical marijuana patient, are often rationalized by calling the drivers “drug abusers” despite no evidence of the claim.
In California, this “drug addict” language was being used to deny medical marijuana patients right to drive. Here in Oregon, “drug addict” language was used to revoke or deny medical marijuana patients their right to a concealed weapons permit. In most medical marijuana states, employers can deny a medical marijuana patient’s right to work when a pre-employment urine test marks them as a “drug addict”. Across the country women who are using marijuana medically to treat the nausea of morning sickness are considered “drug addicts” when their newborn’s urine tests positive for THC metabolites and are denied the right to hold their own baby.
Meanwhile, prescription drugs are advertised on television all day that say, “until you know how Dammitol effects you, don’t drive or operate heavy machinery.” Nobody thinks to take away the concealed handgun permit from the guy who gets an alcohol DUI. You can show up to your workplace drug testing center drunk and still pee clean enough for a job. Nobody takes the newborn away from the morbidly obese mother who has been passing on lousy nutrition to her baby in the womb. It’s funny to me how much danger and risk we are willing to tolerate as a society from alcohol, prescription drugs, and obesity, but that little cannabis flower that makes you happy and never killed anyone, that’s the one we scrutinize for safety.
Monday, February 2nd, 2009 at 5:02 pm | By: Radical Russ
NORML regrets to inform you that Senate Bill 5, an act to criminalize anyone who operates a motor vehicle with any detectable level of marijuana in their blood, has been referred to the Kentucky Senate Rules Committee.
If passed, Senate Bill 5 would mandate criminal penalties for any person who operates a motor vehicle with any measurable level of THC in their blood. This proposal would improperly impact cannabis consumers because THC can remain detectable at low levels in the blood of daily marijuana users for up to 1 or 2 days after past use. In the case of chronic smokers, THC may be detectable in the blood for even longer periods of time. (More information on this subject is available from NORML here.)
Someone who smokes marijuana is impaired as a driver — at most — for a few hours, not days. To treat marijuana smokers as if they are impaired, even when the drug’s effects have long worn off, is illogical and unfair.
In addition, Kentucky already has laws on the books targeting and prosecuting drivers who operate a motor vehicle “under the influence” of illicit drugs. Senate Bill 5 creates a separate crime of “drugged driving” that is, potentially, divorced from impairment and that could jail motorists for simply having consumed an illicit substance at some prior, unspecified date.
Please take a moment today to contact your elected officials and urge them to oppose Senate Bill 5. If your senator sits on the Senate Rules Committee then it is especially important that he or she hears from you. For your convenience, a pre-written letter will be e-mailed to your state representative when you enter your contact information below.
Monday, January 19th, 2009 at 9:00 am | By: Radical Russ
Montana Stashers, get on the phone NOW and call your State Senators to oppose SB 212 (details below). Montana Patients and Families United reports this bill would mandate blood testing for any patient suspected of DUII, sets the blood threshhold so low no patient could pass, the requires lifetime loss of the patient’s medical marijuana privileges.
Monday, September 22nd, 2008 at 11:05 am | By: Radical Russ
[UPDATE: The Reuters people seemed to have flipped the numbers for cannabis and alcohol. This line from the actual TRL website:
Reaction times were around 35% slower when writing a text message. Earlier studies at TRL showed that alcohol consumption to the legal limit caused a 12% reaction time increase; cannabis slowed reaction times by 21%.
Regardless, there are numerous studies showing the threat of cannabis-impaired drivers to be less than the threat of alcohol-impaired drivers. Bottom line - just don't smoke and drive.]
LONDON (Reuters Life!) – Sending text messages from your mobile phone while driving is more dangerous than climbing behind the wheel under the influence of drink or drugs, a study by Britain’s Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) has found.
The reaction times of people texting as they drove fell by 35 percent, while those who had consumed the legal limit of alcohol, or taken cannabis, fell by 21 percent and 12 percent respectively, according to the study.
The study, which was commissioned by motoring group RAC Foundation, also found that the ability to stay in lanes or maintain a safe distance from the vehicle in front was worse than drivers under the influence of cannabis.
[D]rivers who texted were distracted by taking their hand off the wheel to use their phone, by trying to read small text on the phone display and by thinking about how to write their message.
Nearly half of all 18-24 year-olds admitted to texting as they drove, a separate survey by the RAC Foundation discovered.
While the study here focuses on the important news that texting while driving is far worse for your road skills than drinking and driving, I want to focus on the part of the study they buried in the lede:
Driving while texting dropped reaction times by 35%
Driving while drunk dropped reaction times by 21%
Driving while stoned dropped reaction times by 12%
Again I’ll reiterate that you should never drive under the influence of any reaction-blunting activity or substance, including cannabis. If you’ve been smoking, you should wait at least 2-4 hours before operating any heavy machinery.
However, it seems very strange that our opponents continually argue against cannabis legalization for the fear of the imagined increase in impaired driving that would cause, when the legal drug, alcohol, is almost twice as impairing to drivers as cannabis!
Nobody seems to be calling for a return to alcohol prohibition. Nobody seems eager to arrest 775,000 people for possession of text messaging devices in their cars. Yet they’ll defend spending billions on prohibition and possession arrests for the least-impairing substance of them all – cannabis.
Intelimmune LLC will focus on developing a more reliable and accurate diagnostic tool for detecting the presence of tetrehydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana, said Fred Regnier, Purdue’s John H. Law Distinguished Professor Analytical Chemistry.
Jiri Adamec, research assistant professor at Bindley, said the current test for THC is based on unstable antibodies and fraught with problems. Intelimmune researchers hope to devise a process that’s much more precise and reliable.
“Law enforcement can use breathalyzers to determine whether a person is above the legal limit for alcohol use, and saliva is used to detect the presence of marijuana, or THC, in a person’s system, but that test isn’t reliable,” Adamec said. “We look to deliver a proven process that will vastly improve on the present-day test for marijuana.”
Adamec, who will serve as a technical officer for Intelimmune, said the process being developed by the company also is a saliva test, but it will not use protein-based antibodies. Instead, he said, it will employ a process known as “molecular imprinting,” in which an artificial antibody is used to capture THC. Results from this process also would be available in about five minutes, which is comparable to existing diagnostic tools.
For me, this is one sticky issue to cover. NORML always has called for the responsible use of marijuana by adults, and most certainly driving while impaired by cannabis is not responsible use. NORML has also opposed marijuana drug testing for impairment because testing for metabolites only proves prior use, not current intoxication.
However, from a political standpoint, a marijuana test that does accurately measure current intoxication presents some advantage. It might be easier to win votes for marijuana decriminalization or taxation and regulation if the public felt safer because there was an accurate way to catch DUIs.
The problems I see are these – setting a baseline “legal limit” on THC that would have nothing to do with impairment. What if you’ve smoked, waited two hours, then drove, but tested positive? Were you impaired?
I guess the same argument could be made for alcohol – some people at .08 are truly wrecks waiting to happen, but an alcoholic with a tolerance can drive quite functionally at .20. As a society, though, we set .08 (in most places) as the limit, figuring enough people would be wasted at that point to justify the limit.
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I’m just about caught up on all the media processing. Check out the National NORML YouTube Page and you can see all the videos I’ve been uploading from the Aspen Legal Seminar. Also, check out the Aspen Legal Seminar Archive I’ve put together. I’ll be adding more audio, video, and photos as I process them.
Today I’m giving you a two-part presentation from Paul Armentano’s seminar on the latest DUID laws and the studies on cannabis and driving. Yes, they really want to take your license even if you never drive stoned.
Plus we’ve got some good new rock and roll from Skracht Apple, and a new segment on the Stash – Stupid Stoner Stories. I hope you enjoy, and take it as it’s meant – we’ve got to hold ourselves up to a, ahem, higher standard. That means no dope in court!
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It’s Monday, May 19th, and it’s 4:20 somewhere in the world. I’m your host, “Radical” Russ Belville.
Don’t forget to your Congress at 202-224-3121, and tell your representative to support Barney Frank’s HR5843 bill that would legalize marijuana for personal use. Ending prohibition starts with you!
For our Political Activism day today, I’ve just got to tell you about my Sunday at the Waterfront in Portland, where me and 75,000 of my friends gathered to hear Senator Barack Obama. Check out the pictures, map, and video on my personal blog at RadicalRuss.com. It’s exhilarating to feel so many people gathered for political change and awareness, and it’s my goal to bring that wave of change toward ending adult marijuana prohibition. It’s time for a change and it starts with you.
Today we start our Political Activism day halfway around the world to New Zealand, where we spoke with New Zealand NORML’s Chris Fowlie about their Global Marijuana March, or as they call it, “J-Day”.
For our musical break on Blues Monday we’ve got Julian Fauth, a contemporary bluesman from Toronto, Canada. Cannabis Karri picked out “Roll on In” – is it a tribute to great joint rollers? Stay tuned and find out. (If it is, it ain’t about me. I’m a lousy joint roller.)
To conclude our Stash we welcome back new NORML Dad, Deputy Director Paul Armentano. Our international flavor continues as Paul breaks down research from Israel comparing the driving effects of mild doses of cannabis vs. alcohol on drivers.
We’ve also got another great NORML Pass the Stash contest. This time you could win the uncensored DVD of “Totally Baked”, written by Craig Shoemaker (a guest on the Stash). Bonus for you Stashers: it’s autographed by the Executive Producer, Brian Johnson, the lead singer of AC/DC! No joke, there are even three brand new Brian Johnson songs on the DVD. Listen for details later in the podcast on how you can win.
And remember, if you are a business or non-profit who’d like your message heard on the Daily Audio Stash or the NORML Weekly News, you can advertise with us. We have rates for every budget and a 10% discount for non-profits. Just send us an email at stash ‘at’ norml.org and we’ll have you on the air in no time.
So sit back and relax with a good friend and your favorite strain, it’s time for your NORML Daily Audio Stash.
bullbog: Hawkeyes you had a good run...this toke is for you.
Track Snack: Mornin Stashers! Tokin on the Mean Green Martian for breakfast.
MrSpof: Maybe Dr Mitch could comment on the efficacy of reasonable amount of weed like that consumed (smoked) quickly mitigating migraine effects. I know the lowering of blood pressure would be [...]
MrSpof: Had the onset of a migraine yesterday. Immediately took 8 , moist cool washcloth on eyes, heating pad on neck and upper back, turned off lights. Migraine gone in [...]
MrSpof: As you personal non-accredited doctor, I advise the rest of you to smoke/vape/eat heavily
slash5city: frickazee'd.... Mr. Spof, thank you very much
MrSpof: Risen and roasted How the hell are you?
RevRayGreen: always Fidget......always.
Adam: Maybe in WA, judges are starting to think about the true cost of a Drug charge...
Adam: Tim Lincecum, pitcher for the San Francisco Giants will pea to a paraphernalia charge/ Possession charges DROPPED
Adam: Add some cottage cheese to your pancake batter, replace the maple with a fruit syrup! f-ing killer, YES I was stoned...
Fidget Truittelli: Good morning from beautiful Arizona! I hope you all have a happy, fun day. Remember to 'pay-it' forward. Do something nice for someone.
BenJaMin: Go NORML!!!
BenJaMin: Russ Is Tha BEst! :smokin:
SneakerPimp: oh there it is thanx russ
SneakerPimp: so whats up with today stash?
RevRayGreen: Barney Frank Present When Partner Arrested for pot-- http://bit.ly/1XpM2R
RevRayGreen: KMK 11/17/09 VAL AIR ballroom DSM
bullbog: that's crazy. I had a NORML black t-shirt on. It was hell of a show
RevRayGreen: dude I was probably 4-5 seats from you then
bullbog: 4th row center. I wish I was closer.
RevRayGreen: were in in the orchestra pit 4th row? or 4th row center, that's where I was bu slightly to the right
RevRayGreen: our show ______v'''''''
RevRayGreen: catch our chow tomorrow online Carl'sCannabis Corner
www.macswordlive.com 12-2 PM you can go there now and find archived shows
"Truth In Trials Act" Reintroduced In Congress; Maine: Voters Approve Medical Marijuana Dispensaries Measure; Colorado: Breckenridge Voters Overwhelmingly Decide To End Pot Penalties. […]
Maine: Voters To Decide Next Week On Medical Marijuana Expansion Measure; Colorado: Breckenridge Voters To Decide Next Week On Eliminating Pot Penalties; California: Lawmakers Hold Historic Hearing On Marijuana Legalization; New Hampshire: Senate Fails To Override Medical Marijuana Veto. […]
Gallup: Majority Of West Coast Voters Back Marijuana Legalization; Pot Arrests Responsible For Majority Of Marijuana Treatment Referrals; DOJ To Federal Prosecutors: Do Not Focus Resources On Medical Marijuana. […]
Some of the nation’s top athletes discuss why today's pros are turning to cannabis — and away from alcohol and painkillers — off the field, and question why pro sports leagues are continuing to sanction those who do. Moderator: Steve Bloom, Author, Pot Culture; editor, celebstoner.com * Toby Grear, MMA fighter * Sean Neumann, Documentary Filmm […]
Cannabis Law Reform's Missing Link: Law Enforcement Former Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper; LEAP and NORML Advisory Board; Author of Breaking Rank Putting the Mexican Cartels Out of Business Mexican drug cartels now employ over 100,000 soldiers and are responsible for nearly ten thousand deaths per year. Their largest source of income is marijuana. […]
Rebutting Change.org’s “Pot and the Safe Driving Myth”
frickazee'd.... Mr. Spof, thank you very much
and roasted 
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