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	<title>Comments on: Third LA-area raid: Royal Temple of Zion in Echo Park</title>
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	<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park</link>
	<description>The Growing Truth About Cannabis</description>
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		<title>By: gilleweed</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-37289</link>
		<dc:creator>gilleweed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-37289</guid>
		<description>Respectfully, I&#039;d have to argue that the use of cannabis in religion or spirituality is completely subjective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Respectfully, I&#8217;d have to argue that the use of cannabis in religion or spirituality is completely subjective.</p>
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		<title>By: Tyson</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-37240</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-37240</guid>
		<description>I am a religiously educated atheist but even I can admit I experience a form of spirituality when I partake.  I feel more connected to family, to friends, to the earth.  It&#039;s a very peaceful experience for me and I can understand how some who may have the tendency to latch on to religious concepts can confuse the two.  

Growing up I was led to believe that a relationship with g(G)od would somehow make me feel different or would somehow have a physical presence or manifestation inside me; it didn&#039;t.  It never did.  Puff puff puff, however, and I can feel the power of the lord coursing through my veins, my brothers and sisters!  

It&#039;s okay to be religious, it&#039;s okay to have faith in some higher power, I won&#039;t poo poo on anyones right to that, I&#039;m just saying, there&#039;s g(G)od and then there&#039;s pot and they are mutually exclusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a religiously educated atheist but even I can admit I experience a form of spirituality when I partake.  I feel more connected to family, to friends, to the earth.  It&#8217;s a very peaceful experience for me and I can understand how some who may have the tendency to latch on to religious concepts can confuse the two.  </p>
<p>Growing up I was led to believe that a relationship with g(G)od would somehow make me feel different or would somehow have a physical presence or manifestation inside me; it didn&#8217;t.  It never did.  Puff puff puff, however, and I can feel the power of the lord coursing through my veins, my brothers and sisters!  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s okay to be religious, it&#8217;s okay to have faith in some higher power, I won&#8217;t poo poo on anyones right to that, I&#8217;m just saying, there&#8217;s g(G)od and then there&#8217;s pot and they are mutually exclusive.</p>
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		<title>By: Radical Russ</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-37048</link>
		<dc:creator>Radical Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 07:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-37048</guid>
		<description>Nice find!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice find!</p>
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		<title>By: gilleweed</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-37046</link>
		<dc:creator>gilleweed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-37046</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an interesting read http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Religion . Skimming it I found this interesting sentence - &quot;The religion or religious concept need not include belief in the existence of God or a supreme being to be within the scope of the First Amendment.&quot; Besides, if Scientology can be classified as a religion, I don&#039;t see why Weedology can&#039;t be. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weedology</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting read <a href="http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Religion" rel="nofollow">http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Religion</a> . Skimming it I found this interesting sentence &#8211; &#8220;The religion or religious concept need not include belief in the existence of God or a supreme being to be within the scope of the First Amendment.&#8221; Besides, if Scientology can be classified as a religion, I don&#8217;t see why Weedology can&#8217;t be. <a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weedology" rel="nofollow">http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=weedology</a></p>
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		<title>By: Radical Russ</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-36839</link>
		<dc:creator>Radical Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-36839</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m one of those &quot;broadest sense&quot; atheists.

Your final paragraph says everything that needs to be said on the subject of religious use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m one of those &#8220;broadest sense&#8221; atheists.</p>
<p>Your final paragraph says everything that needs to be said on the subject of religious use.</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Dick</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-36711</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-36711</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t claim to know much about atheism.  I have heard some claims that equate it to religion.  Wikipedia states:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,[1] or the position that deities do not exist.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[3]
&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
As an atheist, you have a right to not worship any deity.  That is how you exercise your right to freedom  of religion.  It is the same right that permits those whose religious beliefs include the sacramental use of cannabis to use cannabis in their religious practice.  It is not a special right.  We will probably continue to disagree about this.

The religious use of cannabis involves more than just the act of smoking a joint, or consuming cannabis in some other way.  The distinction between religious use and non-religious use can be very subtle.  In some cases, it may not be possible to distinguish between religious and non-religious use when considering only observable behavior.  Religion is a very personal matter.  The real distinction is the internal motivation for the use.  This cannot be observed.

Nevertheless, the government should not concern itself with the citizens&#039; motivation for using cannabis.  Smoking a joint is an act which, given the legality of drinking alcohol or eating cheeseburgers, the government has no legitimate interest to prohibit.  As it is common for users of cannabis to enjoy its effects with no harmful effects external to themselves, they should be allowed the freedom to do so.  The really sinister thing about the prohibition of drugs is that the government is asserting an authority to control your consciousness.  No one, right-wing or left-wing, should consider this to be acceptable.  

-ED</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t claim to know much about atheism.  I have heard some claims that equate it to religion.  Wikipedia states:</p>
<blockquote><p>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism" rel="nofollow"><br />
Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,[1] or the position that deities do not exist.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[3]<br />
</a>
</p></blockquote>
<p>As an atheist, you have a right to not worship any deity.  That is how you exercise your right to freedom  of religion.  It is the same right that permits those whose religious beliefs include the sacramental use of cannabis to use cannabis in their religious practice.  It is not a special right.  We will probably continue to disagree about this.</p>
<p>The religious use of cannabis involves more than just the act of smoking a joint, or consuming cannabis in some other way.  The distinction between religious use and non-religious use can be very subtle.  In some cases, it may not be possible to distinguish between religious and non-religious use when considering only observable behavior.  Religion is a very personal matter.  The real distinction is the internal motivation for the use.  This cannot be observed.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, the government should not concern itself with the citizens&#8217; motivation for using cannabis.  Smoking a joint is an act which, given the legality of drinking alcohol or eating cheeseburgers, the government has no legitimate interest to prohibit.  As it is common for users of cannabis to enjoy its effects with no harmful effects external to themselves, they should be allowed the freedom to do so.  The really sinister thing about the prohibition of drugs is that the government is asserting an authority to control your consciousness.  No one, right-wing or left-wing, should consider this to be acceptable.  </p>
<p>-ED</p>
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		<title>By: Radical Russ</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-36703</link>
		<dc:creator>Radical Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-36703</guid>
		<description>Agree with you here.  To me, the First Amendment use of the word &quot;religion&quot; is really more a question of &quot;freedom of thought&quot;.  You were also spot-on with the Ninth Amendment, which should render all this religious argument moot anyway; Congress has no authority to regulate flowers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree with you here.  To me, the First Amendment use of the word &#8220;religion&#8221; is really more a question of &#8220;freedom of thought&#8221;.  You were also spot-on with the Ninth Amendment, which should render all this religious argument moot anyway; Congress has no authority to regulate flowers.</p>
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		<title>By: Radical Russ</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-36702</link>
		<dc:creator>Radical Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-36702</guid>
		<description>That sounds a lot like &quot;you gay fellas have just as much a right to marry as woman as anyone else!&quot;  I have as much right to pick a religion that worships cannabis - that&#039;s the problem!

They are, too, claiming a right I wouldn&#039;t have - the right to smoke a joint because they have different thoughts than me.  They are claiming that if me and a Rasta came upon a marijuana plant, the Rasta should be free from arrest for smoking that bud because he thinks Jah provided it to us, but I should be arrested because I think it evolved from a lower form of plant life.  The notion that I should change my view of the plant from one of botanical appreciation to one of sacred worship in order to share the bud with my Rasta friend is one of discrimination against (lack of) religion.

I dislike any laws that give people special rights on account of their religion.  I&#039;ve always found it ironic that courts of law will afford special protection to some based on something (religion) that cannot be proved in a court of law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sounds a lot like &#8220;you gay fellas have just as much a right to marry as woman as anyone else!&#8221;  I have as much right to pick a religion that worships cannabis &#8211; that&#8217;s the problem!</p>
<p>They are, too, claiming a right I wouldn&#8217;t have &#8211; the right to smoke a joint because they have different thoughts than me.  They are claiming that if me and a Rasta came upon a marijuana plant, the Rasta should be free from arrest for smoking that bud because he thinks Jah provided it to us, but I should be arrested because I think it evolved from a lower form of plant life.  The notion that I should change my view of the plant from one of botanical appreciation to one of sacred worship in order to share the bud with my Rasta friend is one of discrimination against (lack of) religion.</p>
<p>I dislike any laws that give people special rights on account of their religion.  I&#8217;ve always found it ironic that courts of law will afford special protection to some based on something (religion) that cannot be proved in a court of law.</p>
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		<title>By: Radical Russ</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-36699</link>
		<dc:creator>Radical Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-36699</guid>
		<description>Personally, I agree - I see no reason why government should be sanctifying &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; marriage unless they recognize all marriages.  If sixteen consenting adults want to co-marry as a commune, I&#039;ve got no issue with that.

Of course, polygamy as it is practiced in America is rarely between consenting non-coerced adults, that&#039;s the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I agree &#8211; I see no reason why government should be sanctifying <em>any</em> marriage unless they recognize all marriages.  If sixteen consenting adults want to co-marry as a commune, I&#8217;ve got no issue with that.</p>
<p>Of course, polygamy as it is practiced in America is rarely between consenting non-coerced adults, that&#8217;s the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Radical Russ</title>
		<link>http://stash.norml.org/third-la-area-raid-royal-temple-of-zion-in-echo-park/comment-page-1#comment-36698</link>
		<dc:creator>Radical Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stash.norml.org/?p=11419#comment-36698</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, the courts have all sorts of tests they use to determine whether a religion is sincere enough to qualify as a religion for legal purposes.  Saying &quot;Smoking weed is my religion&quot; just won&#039;t cut it.

The First Amendment protects my choice not to embrace or create a religion.  It deems that in affairs of state, religion is a neutral and moot point.  Getting the protection to smoke my herb as an enticement to embrace or create a religion seems a bit like government sponsorship of religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, the courts have all sorts of tests they use to determine whether a religion is sincere enough to qualify as a religion for legal purposes.  Saying &#8220;Smoking weed is my religion&#8221; just won&#8217;t cut it.</p>
<p>The First Amendment protects my choice not to embrace or create a religion.  It deems that in affairs of state, religion is a neutral and moot point.  Getting the protection to smoke my herb as an enticement to embrace or create a religion seems a bit like government sponsorship of religion.</p>
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