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Thirteen states have marijuana per se DUID statutes (UPDATED) | The NORML Stash Blog

I am the producer of The NORML Network, the host of the NORML SHOW LIVE and The NORML Stash Blog, and NORML's Outreach Coordinator. I'm married, live in Portland, Oregon, and I am a registered medical marijuana caregiver in this state. I've worked days as an IT geek and nights as a professional musician. Previously, I have been the host of my own political talk radio show on satellite radio. I've been the High Times "Freedom Fighter of the Month" and I travel across the country to educate people on marijuana reform. I've dedicated my life to bringing an end to adult marijuana prohibition and re-legalizing cannabis hemp, and I'm honored to be chosen by NORML to give voice to the Marijuana Nation and to speak for those who can't speak up.


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25 responses to “Thirteen states have marijuana per se DUID statutes (UPDATED)”

  1. Washington Voters - NO on I-502 - Page 16 - Grasscity.com Forums

    [...] Originally Posted by Messiah Decoy Thanks for addressing my point fellas but I would like to know the typical procedure when someone is suspected of driving stoned at this point in time. Anyone know? Do they take you in for a piss test? The procedure is that they first have to catch you violating a traffic law. If they pull you over without cause the case can be thrown out, regardless of your test result. You then have to exhibit "objective signs of impairment", giving the officer probable cause to arrest you under suspicion of DUI. If he has reasonable suspicion that you are impaired by something other than alcohol, he can take you to a hospital for a blood draw. They look for any drug, not just THC. You then get sent home and the blood is sent off to a toxicologist. Later on, the prosecutor reads the arrest report and decides whether to request your blood draw info from the toxicologist. That + the officer's statement is usually enough to win a conviction. All of this happens right now. I-502 implements a 5ng active THC per se limit similar to the .08 limit for alcohol. It acts like an instruction to the jury that this is all that is required to prove impairment. This comes into play at trial, not before. The officer never sees the result until that time if at all. 502 changes NOTHING about the public's interaction with the police. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, 502 also makes a distinction between active THC and carboxy THC. A distinction not made right now. The vast majority of marijuana DUI convictions are for less than 5ng of active THC, sometimes just carboxy. In my view, having a limit will actually help defendants in most cases because they'll be able to now say they were under the legal limit. Juries are completely unaware at this point how much THC might actually result in impairment. I'll also add that 13 other states have MJ DUI laws. If 502 passes, of these states, Washington's will be the most permissive. The other states are zero tolerance, no distinction between active and carboxy, or a 1 or 2 ng threshold. Here's a decent writeup: Thirteen states have marijuana per se DUID statutes (UPDATED) | The NORML Stash Blog. [...]

  2. Anti I-502 blogger selectively quotes DUID statistics to frighten medical marijuana patients

    [...] the effects they had on DUID arrest statistics, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (see: Thirteen states have marijuana per se DUID statutes).  Keegan’s piece was fair and entitled “Marijuana DUI Law Impact Remains Unclear [...]

  3. The Real Facts About Marijuana DUI Laws « KMPA – Kentucky Marijuana Party – Activists

    [...] the effects they had on DUID arrest statistics, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (see: Thirteen states have marijuana per se DUID statutes).  Keegan’s piece was fair and entitled “Marijuana DUI Law Impact Remains Unclear Despite [...]

  4. The Real Facts About Marijuana DUI Laws « U.S. Marijuana Party

    [...] the effects they had on DUID arrest statistics, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (see: Thirteen states have marijuana per se DUID statutes).  Keegan’s piece was fair and entitled “Marijuana DUI Law Impact Remains Unclear Despite [...]

  5. Anti I-502 blogger selectively quotes DUID statistics to frighten medical marijuana patients | The NORML Stash Blog

    [...] the effects they had on DUID arrest statistics, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (see: Thirteen states have marijuana per se DUID statutes).  Keegan’s piece was fair and entitled “Marijuana DUI Law Impact Remains Unclear [...]

  6. Act now to stop prohibition! | Alex's Story

    [...] In Washington, another measure is going to be on the ballot. It’s got some concerning per se DUI law written into it, but I still urge people to vote for it. Why? Because that per se DUI law will likely go into effect eventually, as it has in so many other states [...]

  7. cannabiscrusader

    Russ, there are a few things you should know about James, before you decide to waste any more of your valuable time. The first thing to know is that James has never won an actual legal case in his life, although he’s been convicted numerous times.

    His latest encounter with reality in the legal system found him first convicted by a jury of his peers on a simple possession charge, then by a superior court on appeal, and then he was denied even a hearing by the state court of appeals. Get this, He didn’t even win a single motion through the whole trial and appeals process. And to think, he could have saved himself and the taxpayers a lot of money if he had only been well enough versed in the law to know that he needs a current authorization to use medical cannabis.

    Don’t you find it paradoxical that James claims expertise in international law, yet he can’t avoid or beat a simple misdemeanor charge relating to the same legal subject he claims such expertise in?

    James is currently banned from from many Washington state medical cannabis forums for his behavior and inability to realize that he’s just not that bright when it comes to the law in general, and specifically, medical cannabis law.

    James claims to be an advocate for the medical cannabis cause. If you take a look at his actions though, he really is just posing in order to draw attention to himself, and to pursue vendettas against those whom he believes have done him wrong. If you want to take a look into the mind of a narcissistic paranoid schizophrenic, you need look no further than James.

  8. James Sr.

    Google: > > Exclusive: Why Can’t You Smoke Pot? Because Lobbyists Are Getting Rich Off of the War on Drugs

    Thclist.com supports legalization with no NEW criminal penalties attached Russ. Do that and we are on board.. anything less is a HUGE lobbying sales gimmick for donations. The problem is y’all face though, is the treaties.. lobbying to have them changed may behoove the movement Russ..

    Did anyone watch the cop and judge in grays harbor get shot and stabbed today ??

    Google: >> Judge stabbed, deputy shot at Grays Harbor Courthouse
    Google: >> Judge wounded in Montesano attack had sued over court security …
    Lobbying for a metal detector at all odds.. what’s next ??

  9. James Sr

    Here is your “PROHIBITION” russ.. wtf? are you smoking.. I want some dude !!

    Why are you selling junk info to the public in the name of your employer ??

    Or are you really that morally shallow ?

    I would like to see your boss respond if you can’t Russ.. :-)

    The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs makes a distinction between recreational and medical and scientific uses of drugs. Numerous provisions state that nations are allowed to permit medical use of drugs. However, recreational use is prohibited by Article 4:

    The parties shall take such legislative and administrative measures as may be necessary . . . Subject to the provisions of this Convention, to limit exclusively to medical and scientific purposes the production, manufacture, export, import, distribution of, trade in, use and possession of drugs.

    Furthermore, the Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances requires its Parties to establish criminal penalties for possession of drugs prohibited under the Single Convention for recreational use. If a nation wished to completely legalize marijuana, it would have to withdraw from the treaties. According to leading researchers in this area of law, every signatory has a right to do this.

    So with this in mind–>>However, recreational use is prohibited by Article 4:

  10. James Sr

    So your morals are :

    I want access to an OZ. of weed so I can smoke recreational but, not drive and I want to deprive those whom under international and state medical laws the right to drive even though I know they are not actually impaired as they have a higher tolerance level well above 5ng/ml thc level of blood.

    I would say you have some moral issues for sure Russ.

    INTERNATIONAL TREATY LAW ARTICLE 4 bans recreational use world wide for any nation and for all their citizens. Our states and federal government have OBLIGATIONS under those treaties to have criminal sanctions against RECREATIONAL USE..but, not medical use or scientific use for it’s citizens.

    Sorry Russ you have so many moral issues of not wanting to abide by the law and throw others under the law enforcement bus by a vote of the people, which will have an injunction filed which have no defense against due to the commerce clause.

    The only non severable sections to be untouched will be DUID for all.. a strict liability crime.

    So at the end of the day.. you just authorized a 5ng/ml state wide is all by voting it in to law… when in fact all leo already has the authority to arrest for impaired driving with no limits to prove impairment. It makes it hard to prosecute for cannabis as of today but, will be an automatic guilt for those whom under state, federal and international OBLIGATIONS have a right to use cannabis as a medicine which has no toxic levels to the human body.

    I find it an issue for myself Russ, as I can not drive unless I have high levels of carboxy delta-11 in my system to actually un- impair my driving abilities. If I don’t, I am not safe to be on the road with my medical conditions.

    So I find it just the opposite to your morals for sure.

    I have spoken to leo, judges, and my local legislative body to these facts. And it is well documented as the federal government has such records as testimony I gave in a medical setting.

    You do not wish to debate anymore because you have hit a brick wall with no way out of the REAL debate..

    As for digging on the other supporters… . your the ONLY one blasting the airwaves and INTERNET with this B.S. .. looking for more donations..

    As for the article I read.. when I am not busy with other things and helping protecting patients and providers rights.. I will post it here.. maybe today, maybe next week but, it will get done.

    Maybe norml should just not endorse such horse crap being they should know better beings they just lost the commerce clause argument hands down.. for medical use.. I can only imagine the money needed to fight a recreational injunction under the commerce clause… sounds like sanctions to me.. HUGE sanctions for trying to argue what one knows is futile. This is called ETHICS of the profession..

    I would like to see legalization with no criminal penalties attached.. that is TRUE LEGALIZATION.

    Russ, if a call girl said her services are free.. would you enjoy it, or be very concerned you would leave with something you didn’t want for life.. we will presume you like call girls services like most men in society would unless they just have a moral issue of lying to themselves ….

    Yep, it surly is a moral issue now isn’t it. :-o

  11. xcannabis.com

    But you seem to be implying that

    1. I-502 is “legalization”
    2. That this is the beginning

    I see 12 states that already have it better than what I-502 proposes.

  12. James Sr.

    Google Medical Marijuana and Highway Deaths

    Seems every state that enacted medical cannabis laws have less deaths due to cannabis users..

    @ Patients against I-502,

    I read an article today which said norml backs legalization in the whole U.S. of A with DUID laws attached..

    Why the hell would they do that across america when states already have impaired driving laws ??

    To complete the grudge against medical marijuana patients noted here:

    NORML Owes The Medical Marijuana Community An Apology

    By Steve Elliott ~alapoet~
    January 6, 2012

    NORML Executive Director Allen St. Pierre has called the medical marijuana industry a “legal farce” and “largely a sham” in an article which hit the web yesterday, creating a backlash among NORML’s many supporters (quite a few of whom likely just became former supporters) in the medicinal cannabis industry.

    How many times must we repeat this? Attacking medical marijuana is not a good legalization strategy.

    These are some sick twisted people running the legalization road show.. poor sheeple.

  13. Patients Against I-502

    Take note, Colorado. Russ Belville is providing more ammunition for the folks trying to implement per se DUIC in your state…and NORML fully supports his behavior.

  14. xcannabis.com

    Selling a DUID to pass legalization is a bit of a hoodwink. Especially if we already have a DUID law for impaired driving of drugs..

    If this crap passes in Washington, Russ in Oregon, and myself in California will have it much better than Washingtonians. We already have decrim (which is all I-502 is), and we don’t have the added provisions of blood testing, THC limits, and added penalties. If I get pulled over with an ounce of weed, its a $100 ticket, a non-criminal infraction, and I go on my merry way. And for something like an ounce, the police don’t even really bother.

    I think people in states like Oregon and California and a handful of others, that already enjoy these decrim laws, some of us apparently take it for granite.

    Im not compromising my right to drive for a wee little ounce, and no authorization to grow or share.
    I-502 is dumb law, and it is NOT “legalization”. Its worse than the decrim that Cali passed last year!

  15. James Sr.

    Unfortunately Russ,

    The states can not change the feds obligations under the treaties. That is simply a wish lawyers want most to believe.

    I am not a hater Russ. I just know how to read plain english. ( I guess I missed some silent supporters OOPs.)

    Hell I used cannabis way before any medical laws came about, just like the most of us over 40 have.

    I asked the question because the last court show down norml did for medical distribution came to an end like no other I have seen before in the history of norml.. on the commerce clause argument they didn’t argue against. 4 CASES Russ.. not just 1.

    So all that was donated to norml got flushed down the drain.. with no chance of any wining appeal.

    So I am a bit taken back on how those others you mentioned are going to fair out with donations to them also..

    Seems a bit of a circle don’t you think ??

    Selling a DUID to pass legalization is a bit of a hoodwink. Especially if we already have a DUID law for impaired driving of drugs..

    Again, seems like a bit of a circle russ.

    Heck Russ at least I am not attacking the bogus stats posted on the initiatives website..

    You would really think I am a hater if I did that.. :-P

  16. James Sr.

    Russ,

    You claim to be open for debate of the real issues on legalization . Here is the lobster trap one must get out of before it will be allowed.

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Cannabis reform at the international level refers to efforts to ease restrictions on cannabis use under international treaties. Most cannabis reform organizations do not spend a great deal of resources on international cannabis reform, since success would require governmental assistance that has so far not been forthcoming. Decisions to change global drug regulations are usually reached by informal consensus; without such agreement, reform is virtually impossible.

    Nations could withdraw from international drug control treaties, but they would almost certainly continue to face great pressure to comply with their provisions. As of January 1, 2005, 180 nations belonged to the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs. The international drug control bodies exert a powerful influence across the globe, preventing even reform-minded nations such as the Netherlands from completely legalizing cannabis.

    Internationally, the drug is in Schedule IV of the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, that treaty’s most restrictive category.

    Background

    The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs makes a distinction between recreational and medical and scientific uses of drugs. Numerous provisions state that nations are allowed to permit medical use of drugs. However, recreational use is prohibited by Article 4:

    The parties shall take such legislative and administrative measures as may be necessary . . . Subject to the provisions of this Convention, to limit exclusively to medical and scientific purposes the production, manufacture, export, import, distribution of, trade in, use and possession of drugs.

    Furthermore, the Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances requires its Parties to establish criminal penalties for possession of drugs prohibited under the Single Convention for recreational use. If a nation wished to completely legalize marijuana, it would have to withdraw from the treaties. According to leading researchers in this area of law, every signatory has a right to do this.

    So with this in mind–>>However, recreational use is prohibited by Article 4:

    How does norml justify it’s “standards” you mentioned ?

    Now with the treaties being the law of the land–>> Article VI, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution, known as the Supremacy Clause, establishes the U.S. Constitution, U.S. Treaties, made pursuant to the U.S. Constitution, shall be “the supreme law of the land.” The text decrees these to be the highest form of law in the U.S. legal system, and mandates that all state judges must follow federal law when a conflict arises between federal law and either the state constitution or state law of any state. (Note that the word “shall” is used, which makes it a necessity, a compulsion.) However, the Supremacy Clause only applies if the federal government is acting in pursuit of its constitutionally authorized powers, as noted by the phrase “in pursuance thereof” in the actual text of the Supremacy Clause itself.

    The “supremacy clause” is the most important guarantor of national union. It assures that the Constitution and federal laws and treaties take precedence over state law and binds all judges to adhere to that principle in their courts. – United States Senate

    Origin of the Conception.—How did this distinctive feature of the Constitution come about, by virtue of which the treaty-making authority is enabled to stamp upon its promises the quality of municipal law, thereby rendering them enforceable by the courts without further action? The short answer is that Article VI, paragraph 2, makes treaties the supreme law of the land on the same footing with acts of Congress.

    My question would be is norml or aclu going to fight the injunction which would follow I-502 passing the vote of the people ?

    I mean, are we the people of the state of Wa. i.e. the tax payers suppose to fend off an injunction which is going to surly occur ?

    I am sure the feds will not even mention the DUID part but, will for sure mention “recreational use” as completely prohibited under the treaties they signed.

    For a example of what I am getting at please see Monson v. DEA in which was a hemp farm case in which the legislators themselves owned and operated a hemp farm which the DEA refused giving a registration to grow and sell to the public a non THC plant, seeds, and fibers.

    I do not understand normls position backing something they should know is not viable.

    Using the statistics your using here are relatively meaningless Russ.

  17. bud

    I’m a lucky guy to be living in Nevada… not! The MMJ program is restrictive with zero support. We live like rats afraid to talk to other card holders. Having a card (and showing it) will be grounds for a pee test/blood test. I look like a cop so that helps but I pity the young crowd as they’re all suspects.

  18. Matterofliberty

    Maybe I missed it in the stats, but are these Total DUI’s? Including for alcohol & other drugs ? Or is this cannabis only?

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